Ammonium bicarbonate to nitrate

[KrisReef]

https://aslopubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/lno.12050

I think Randy is correct that one needs a very sensitive test kit to explore these questions.

Light, temperature, and iron and P are also playing in this invisible circus. It is a great questions.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Time delay with the seneye could be an issue as well. I presume the delay may be similar to the Seachem alert badge, which does not respond super fast to lowering levels:

https://www.seachem.com/ammonia-alert.php

The presence of the free ammonia is detectable continuously with a response time of about 15 minutes. Response to decreasing ammonia is slower, requiring about 4 hours to go from TOXIC to SAFE on removal of ammonia.

 

[KrisReef]

Dosing nitrate could provide a more straight forward initial measurement, followed with rate of removal from solution?

 

[Dan_P]

And it is free ammonia correct? Was it precise and just lacking in accuracy, or did it lack on both metrics? I didn't pay much attention or commit to remembering because I couldn't fathom a need either way for an operating reef aquarium.

I will recap the entire story.

The Seneye ammonia detection uses a film that changes color when exposed to ammonia (NH3). It’s response is almost exclusively to NH3, but there are small organic amines that can cause it to change color. The good thing is you typically don’t find concentrations of these organic amines high enough in an aquarium to interfere. The Seachem ammonia alert badge uses this technology. The difference is that the Seneye sensing film has a fast response and recovery time and a light color change. Seachem ammonia alert film has a higher color intensity but lower response and recovery rates. Seneye measures the light bouncing off the sensing film to determine how deeply colored the film is. Color intensity is proportional to the amount of free ammonia present in the water. The color intensity is not linearly related to free ammonia concentration over a very wide range. The Seneye film response to ammonia looks like a hockey stick with the blade pointing down with the toe angling towards zero the handle angling up towards higher concentrations. The blade part of the curve is steep but covers a narrow ammonia range before it levels off. Unless the device is calibrated, you will only obtain reasonable estimates of free ammonia below say 0.05 ppm which is very roughly corresponds to 0.50 ppm total ammonia. This is a fancy Seachem ammonia alert badge. As for studying free ammonia concentrations real time, the Seneye might work for monitoring a slow increase, but not a decline in concentration because of the relatively slow recovery time.

In summary, unless calibrated, the Seneye does not accurately measure free ammonia. In addition, the Seneye technology cannot measure changing ammonia concentrations because of the sensing film’s slow response and recovery rates.

The much talked about 0.001 ppm sensing ability is the devices normal reading with nothing going on. The device’s zero point is iffy and likely lies in the 0.001-0.003 range. This means that a marine total ammonia Hanna Checker at its lowest reasonable reading is detecting ammonia comparable to a Seneye.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I will recap the entire story.

The Seneye ammonia detection uses a film that changes color when exposed to ammonia (NH3). It’s response is almost exclusively to NH3, but there are small organic amines that can cause it to change color. The good thing is you typically don’t find concentrations of these organic amines high enough in an aquarium to interfere. The Seachem ammonia alert badge uses this technology. The difference is that the Seneye sensing film has a fast response and recovery time and a light color change. Seachem ammonia alert film has a higher color intensity but lower response and recovery rates. Seneye measures the light bouncing off the sensing film to determine how deeply colored the film is. Color intensity is proportional to the amount of free ammonia present in the water. The color intensity is not linearly related to free ammonia concentration over a very wide range. The Seneye film response to ammonia looks like a hockey stick with the blade pointing down with the toe angling towards zero the handle angling up towards higher concentrations. The blade part of the curve is steep but covers a narrow ammonia range before it levels off. Unless the device is calibrated, you will only obtain reasonable estimates of free ammonia below say 0.05 ppm which is very roughly corresponds to 0.50 ppm total ammonia. This is a fancy Seachem ammonia alert badge. As for studying free ammonia concentrations real time, the Seneye might work for monitoring a slow increase, but not a decline in concentration because of the relatively slow recovery time.

In summary, unless calibrated, the Seneye does not accurately measure free ammonia. In addition, the Seneye technology cannot measure changing ammonia concentrations because of the sensing film’s slow response and recovery rates.

The much talked about 0.001 ppm sensing ability is the devices normal reading with nothing going on. The device’s zero point is iffy and likely lies in the 0.001-0.003 range. This means that a marine total ammonia Hanna Checker at its lowest reasonable reading is detecting ammonia comparable to a Seneye.

Ahhh that rings old time bells, conjuring an old Marlo Brando film. Isn't that a distant cousin? Anyway, if I remember Marlo took the stance that no film ever needed to be calibrated. His position was so firm that he called it one of his rules. He stated that if calibration did not come back as dead zero, to treat any offset as dead zero and to "subtract" any offset from zero from any future higher reading. He backed that with his other rule that no calibration in an existing studio could ever be anything but zero. The first and second laws of Marlo Brando.

 

[Dan_P]

Ahhh that rings old time bells, conjuring an old Marlo Brando film. Isn't that a distant cousin? Anyway, if I remember Marlo took the stance that no film ever needed to be calibrated. His position was so firm that he called it one of his rules. He stated that if calibration did not come back as dead zero, to treat any offset as dead zero and to "subtract" any offset from zero from any future higher reading. He backed that with his other rule that no calibration in an existing studio could ever be anything but zero. The first and second laws of Marlo Brando.

Yes, the film was almost sacred, infallible, and no amount of data ever stood in the way of believing that. We should replay some of those oldy but goodies.