An idea to keep linckias alive?

[Dkmoo]

I know that linckias are hard to keep bc in most of our tanks there's just not enough bacterial film and sponges to keep them alive.

I had an idea that I'm wondering if anyone had tried already:

Basically, you take a few live rocks and you start dark curing them to get rid of the algae, but instead of just letting it sit in the dark barrel, you actively add nutrient into it - dump your skimmate and carbon dose. The idea here is to let those rocks grow as much sponge/bacteria as possible. Then after a month or 2, put that rock in your DT to feed the linckia?

With 5 - 10 pieces of rock you. An rotate 1 out each week for a constant supply.

 

[Ron Reefman]

Possible, but seems like a lot of effort to keep a star.

I have 2 serpent stars in my 16g DT (soon to be a 40g aio) and they don't need extra effort and they work as CUC.

 

[sixty_reefer]

@livinlifeinBKK is doing something similar, maybe he could add something.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

I know that linckias are hard to keep bc in most of our tanks there's just not enough bacterial film and sponges to keep them alive.

I had an idea that I'm wondering if anyone had tried already:

Basically, you take a few live rocks and you start dark curing them to get rid of the algae, but instead of just letting it sit in the dark barrel, you actively add nutrient into it - dump your skimmate and carbon dose. The idea here is to let those rocks grow as much sponge/bacteria as possible. Then after a month or 2, put that rock in your DT to feed the linckia?

With 5 - 10 pieces of rock you. An rotate 1 out each week for a constant supply.

The primary issue I see with this method lies in the fact that biofilms and encrusting sponges grow in nutrient rich but otherwise clean water and through a good bit of research I've read into, the consistency of biofilms can change very rapidly due to environmental conditions and an extreme excess of nutrients like what is found in typical skimmate would imo make a very unnatural biofilm that would be unlikely to sustain the stars

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

I had the idea to instead use live rock from the ocean in a small tank and raise nutrients levels along with using a flocculant such as Zeovit Zeofood Plus which aids in biofilm growth...I'm still working out a few kinks though

 

[Dkmoo]

I have 2 serpent stars in my 16g DT (soon to be a 40g aio) and they don't need extra effort and they work as CUC.

I get that but the point isn't jus to keep any star in the tank just to have one. Sepents aesthetically are very different from linckias and serve different purposes (cuc that hides most of the time vs a show piece that's always visible with bright colors and the iconic "star" shape)

People are already brewing their own phyto in this hobby and IMO this set up, if feasible, isnt that much more effort

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Personally I believe it's possible to keep Linckias alive in smaller tanks, we just haven't figured it out quite yet which is something I'd love to do!

 

[Dkmoo]

The primary issue I see with this method lies in the fact that biofilms and encrusting sponges grow in nutrient rich but otherwise clean water and through a good bit of research I've read into, the consistency of biofilms can change very rapidly due to environmental conditions and an extreme excess of nutrients like what is found in typical skimmate would imo make a very unnatural biofilm

These challenges are solvable- Excess nutrient can be controlled by how much skim you put in, or replace altogether with a different nutrient source. The carbon dosing will also aid with achieving clean water by promoting bacteria and increasing DOC which filterfeeders feed on.

I had the idea to instead use live rock from the ocean in a small tank and raise nutrients levels along with using a flocculant such as Zeovit Zeofood Plus which aids in biofilm growth...I'm still working out a few kinks though

Will the tank be lit? The only reason I went with "dark" is bc I want the nutrients to go to sponges and bacteria only, instead of having some go to photosynthetic algae. The ZV serves similar purpose as carbon dosing in my idea. Maybe a lit tank could be better in the sense that it'll be easier to get clean water with algae (basically a refugium set up) and maybe with enough nutrient upkeep it won't matter if algae takes some of it.

Personally I believe it's possible to keep Linckias alive in smaller tanks, we just haven't figured it out quite yet which is something I'd love to do!

Yup thats the goal!

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

"These challenges are solvable- Excess nutrient can be controlled by how much skim you put in, or replace altogether with a different nutrient source. The carbon dosing will also aid with achieving clean water by promoting bacteria and increasing DOC which filterfeeders feed on."

Its essentially the same idea I had if you use a different nutrient source instead of skimmate...I think you might be underestimating the importance of the composition of the biofilm though...I say that because if you go that way you're gonna be having to constantly test nitrates and phosphates not only to keep them from bottoming out but you might also need to worry about the heterotrophic bacteria smothering the other microfauna growing on the rocks would be my guess

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

I have a scientific paper detailing the succession of biofilm growth and how easily the composition can change if you'd like to read it

 

[Dkmoo]

I have a scientific paper detailing the succession of biofilm growth and how easily the composition can change if you'd like to read it

Sure, always good to learn. Feel free to post here or DM me

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Sure, always good to learn. Feel free to post here or DM me

It might take me a few minutes to find it but I'll get it to you...btw, I actually do have a fish only tank that I let the phosphates and nitrates climb pretty high in along with a reef tank that has a Fromia in it and every once in a while I'll move over a rock from the FOWLR to the reef tank and it usually initiates a feeding response in the starfish

 

[Dkmoo]

you might also need to worry about the heterotrophic bacteria smothering the other microfauna growing on the rocks would be my guess

Does star only eat a certain type of bacteria or does it matter if a heterotroph smothers other microfauna if the star will eat it anyway?

I recall a while ago there was a YouTuber that kept a blue linckia for 4+ years. He had a gigantic mature reef and mentioned something i found interesting - his start is always feasting on the bottom of colonies thats are STN'ing. Id assume there would be a lot of heterotrophs in that rotting coral tissue

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Does star only eat a certain type of bacteria or does it matter if a heterotroph smothers other microfauna if the star will eat it anyway?

I recall a while ago there was a YouTuber that kept a blue linckia for 4+ years. He had a gigantic mature reef and mentioned something i found interesting - his start is always feasting on the bottom of colonies thats are STN'ing. Id assume there would be a lot of heterotrophs in that rotting coral tissue

It's generally accepted that a majority of starfish are generalists. For example in the wild Fromias primarily eat biofilm but I can spot feed mine oysters and I know for a fact he's eating them...it's not known if alternative foods are very nutritional for them though. So while they will readily eat a wide variety of foods, I tend to believe that there's something about their natural diet that supports them in some way (maybe their immune system or digestive system for example)

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

This is from a very reputable book and describes their eating habits...

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

What size tank do you have it in and how big is it?

 

[Dkmoo]

I dont have one. Just brainstorming. Always wanted one (either fromia or linckia) but hesitant bc I knew they dont survive long. ..

I have a 7 year old mix reef. 65G AIO. Probably will be upgrading to a 150+ in the next year or so...