Angulatus crazy reaction to PraziPro :(

[Rakie]

Ended up with a new fish and due to all the wrong conditions at once, I had to get him in without proper QT... I know. (Sailfin)

So one of my wrasse started visiting the cleaner shrimp to check his mouth out a little too often (Lunate). Once I saw a head shake I decided -- flukes.

So this morning (like 10 minutes ago) I put in a little PraziPro, and within less than a minute, my Angulatus was swimming erratically, and trying to jump out of the tank like the water was fire (NO other fish had any reaction). Immediately turned on the carbon to get it out the prazi, and have run the skimmer a bit too.

The Angulatus was sucked onto the MP10 within about 2 minutes, so pumps are off except return... He's resting on the sand breathing heavily now, while I deal with getting the Prazi pro out.

@evolved -- THis actually came up when you visited our club, any further insight?

 

[Labridaedicted]

Unfortunately, it's not uncommon for wrasses to react adversely to prazi.

Keep an eye on him and hope for improvement. Removing prazi will help. Prazi is one thing I treat almost all incoming fish with as almost everything has flukes nowadays.

 

[Rakie]

Unfortunately, it's not uncommon for wrasses to react adversely to prazi.

Man... I have never had this happen... Is there a chance he'll make it or is he generally a goner?

 

[dbrewsky]

i don't think wrasses are affected by the medication itself, however, a heavily infected fish may be reacting poorly to the distress caused by the medication reacting with the intended worms. I would try and monitor for the time being, nothing really that can be done other then large water changes and carbon if the distress does not ease up.

 

[Labridaedicted]

Man... I have never had this happen... Is there a chance he'll make it or is he generally a goner?

The Prazi stress should be recoverable as long as the power head didn't damage him too much.

 

[eatbreakfast]

Unfortunately, it's not uncommon for wrasses to react adversely to prazi.

I haven't found this to be the case.

As prazi kills flukes, the flukes may seize and further damage the fish where they were attached. If the infestation was particularly bad on the gills the reaction as described can occur.

Methylene blue has been found to be therapeutic to gill damage. Also, holding the fish so that it is face-forward into flow can help it breathe easier.

 

[Rakie]

The Prazi stress should be recoverable as long as the power head didn't damage him too much.

Powerhead was off in less than 10 seconds. Except for stress colors, he looks physically fine.

I haven't found this to be the case.

As prazi kills flukes, the flukes may seize and further damage the fish where they were attached. If the infestation was particularly bad on the gills the reaction as described can occur.

Methylene blue has been found to be therapeutic to gill damage. Also, holding the fish so that it is face-forward into flow can help it breathe easier.

He was not displaying any symptoms of flukes, but if they were present I'd assume he also had them. Due to one fish possibly having them after the new addition, I decided to dose the tank. And this guy flipped out.

This is a major bummer. I'm hoping he can turn it around.

I will say I've heard a few people say wrasse can react very poorly to Prazi

 

[Labridaedicted]

The display tank was treated? How did your other wrasses react? The sensitivity is not equal across the board, so if others are fine and he doesn't start looking better and everyone else does, perhaps qt him and continue dt treatment.

 

[Rakie]

The display tank was treated? How did your other wrasses react? The sensitivity is not equal across the board, so if others are fine and he doesn't start looking better and everyone else does, perhaps qt him and continue dt treatment.

Yes, DT was treated. I've treated DT before so it didn't worry me.. Nothing else seemed to have issue at all. And he wasn't visiting the cleaner shrimp either. He was displaing no scratching or head shakes, nothing.

 

[GHsaltie]

I agree with @eatbreakfast, if that particular fish had a heavier infestation then what you described sounds like behavior induced from the flukes seizing and causing further gill damage. How is he now?

 

[Rakie]

I agree with @eatbreakfast, if that particular fish had a heavier infestation then what you described sounds like behavior induced from the flukes seizing and causing further gill damage. How is he now?

He's the same -- But all I can say is the new fish was introduced only a few days ago, and there were no flukes prior. He was quite healthy, so I'm at a loss. Everything you guys are saying makes sense, but that doesn't seem like the issue. Unless somehow flukes came to be, and within a day or two he was a fluke magnet... The timeline just seems too short to me.

 

[GHsaltie]

Here's a useful thread if you haven't seen it already. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/flukes-–-general-guidelines.224423/
Here it is mentioned that the eggs hatch within 4-6 days. However, it doesn't give a timeline for the reproduction of the live-bearing fluke Gyrodactylidae. It could be the same or it may not be, and it may have absolutely nothing to do with your circumstance, I just thought it was an interesting bit of information .

 

[Rakie]

He's looking a small fraction better... He went into the caves to get cleaned by the shrimp, they did their job and are cleaning him carefully from nose to tail... they aren't eating him, and he's not dead. When he's had enough or feels too sensitive he'll move a bit from the shrimp and they'll back off.

I have no QT / Hospital tank, no room right now.

MP10 took a piece out of his left pectoral fin but so far that's it, pumps are back on at the lowest setting. His face is okay, his gills look okay but they're hard to see where he's at now. The other wrasse are checking him out but not being aggressive at all, so that's good I suppose. Maybe a little bad luck struck and he *did* get swarmed with flukes.

I'm a little concerned the scarlet cleaner shrimp will go into carnivore mode while i'm gone... But the angulatus has enough in him to move away.

Man, what a terrible way to wake up -_-

 

[ngoodermuth]

I would give him a day or two to recover, and then give him a freshwater dip. The dip will do two things:

1. Confirm that you are indeed dealing with a fluke infestation

2. Remove a large portion of the flatworms so that he gets relief, and doesn't suffer the same reaction if Prazi is needed.

 

[evolved]

Unfortunately, it's not uncommon for wrasses to react adversely to prazi.

That's never been my experience either.

i don't think wrasses are affected by the medication itself

In terms of the praziquantel present in the medication, I agree. However, there are some thoughts that the alcohol used to keep the praziquantel in solution in PraziPro may irritate some fish. It's also that alcohol which can fuel a bacterial bloom with the product.
I know some people seek out praziquantel powder instead and skip over PraziPro, but it's difficult to dissolve the powder in a tank.

a heavily infected fish may be reacting poorly to the distress caused by the medication reacting with the intended worms.

But I completely agree with this, and this would also be my prime suspicion. Flukes can take hold pretty quickly, especially if the infected fish slept next/near this fish one night.

 

[Rakie]

He died within the hour -- I put him in fresh water to see if any flukes would come out, looked in his gills too, nothing came out, nothing turned white, gills looked good.. I didn't see any sign of flukes :/

Maybe he did get taken over in just a few short days, but man he had such a strong and instant reaction... Such a shame, such a good looking fish.

 

[dbrewsky]

sorry to hear, there are some things that cannot be explained in this hobby, good luck next time

 

[Labridaedicted]

Odd that I'm the only one that has seen wrasse sensitivity to the prazi. I have had it happen and talked to a few others that have had similar experiences. Might be worth some research...

Sorry for the loss, Rakie, sometimes in this hobby, things will go wrong despite our best intentions and efforts.

 

[Rakie]

Thanks all, the rest are all healthy and happy and showed no reaction to the meds.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

Sorry, man! That sucks.