BRS is contradicting themselves on Prazipro

[nick t]

Hello,

I have a new royal gramma that has successfully finished a Copper Power quarantine. I am now ready to dose Prazipro, except I keep finding conflicting information. This is only my third fish, and the first time I am trying to quarantine myself. My clown pair was pre-treated from Dr. Reef.

BRS' Phase 3 80/20 quarantine video states that you should not use Prazipro if the liquid is a clear color. However, I have now received two bottles from them that have both been clear. I called customer service today thinking I could get a replacement bottle, but they contradicted their own video saying the product I received was good to go. Its worth mentioning, that the rep was was very friendly and was willing to collaborate with co-workers while I was on hold.

Video Link

I guess I'm just looking for a consensus on how to proceed. I really don't want to harm my fish, and I am half tempted to skip the prazi and put him in the display since I've already treated with Copper Power.

 

[drolmaeye]

Hello,

I have a new royal gramma that has successfully finished a Copper Power quarantine. I am now ready to dose Prazipro, except I keep finding conflicting information. This is only my third fish, and the first time I am trying to quarantine myself. My clown pair was pre-treated from Dr. Reef.

BRS' Phase 3 80/20 quarantine video states that you should not use Prazipro if the liquid is a clear color. However, I have now received two bottles from them that have both been clear. I called customer service today thinking I could get a replacement bottle, but they contradicted their own video saying the product I received was good to go. Its worth mentioning, that the rep was was very friendly and was willing to collaborate with co-workers while I was on hold.

Video Link

I guess I'm just looking for a consensus on how to proceed. I really don't want to harm my fish, and I am half tempted to skip the prazi and put him in the display since I've already treated with Copper Power.

If the PraziPro was purchased from BRS and is not expired, I think there is little to no risk using it. Prazi is a relatively safe medication (seems to be very few reports of adverse reactions). Just make sure to shake the bottle well, make a best-estimate of actual water volume, and provide good aeration (air stone, skimmer, etc.). Note that I have had PraziPro that ranged from clear to slightly pink in appearance. I typically mix the appropriate dose w/ about 100 mL of tank water and then pour that mix in the tank.

Anecdotally, I have a Royal Gramma that I treated with PraziPro (prophylactically) about 8 months ago and it is now doing very well in my DT. They are hardy fish and a good candidate for you to get experience with this medication/QT procedure.

I do not follow the dosing instructions in the video (every three days) but instead I follow the directions in R2R's QT protocol (I dose twice, 8 days apart).

ETA: most hobbyists recommend to remove most/all copper from your water prior to adding PraziPro. There is a belief that copper in the water can promote bacterial bloom which can, in tuen, contribute to low levels of dissolved oxygen in water. Note that many people use both simultaneously.

 

[MnFish1]

Hello,

I have a new royal gramma that has successfully finished a Copper Power quarantine. I am now ready to dose Prazipro, except I keep finding conflicting information. This is only my third fish, and the first time I am trying to quarantine myself. My clown pair was pre-treated from Dr. Reef.

BRS' Phase 3 80/20 quarantine video states that you should not use Prazipro if the liquid is a clear color. However, I have now received two bottles from them that have both been clear. I called customer service today thinking I could get a replacement bottle, but they contradicted their own video saying the product I received was good to go. Its worth mentioning, that the rep was was very friendly and was willing to collaborate with co-workers while I was on hold.

Video Link

I guess I'm just looking for a consensus on how to proceed. I really don't want to harm my fish, and I am half tempted to skip the prazi and put him in the display since I've already treated with Copper Power.

My guess is that it's 'good to go'. However, (not suggesting you do so now) - I would have asked 'why' they said that in the video - and what's different now? Agree with using the current R2R protocol! Good luck

 

[Cell]

@Bulk Reef Supply What gives?

at 7:28 Elliot with Ryan by his side says:

"quick tip if you ever look into the bottle and the fluid inside is clear, throw it away, doesn't work, it should be like a darker rose color sometimes it actually does come out of the factory that way, but just make sure the one your using is viable"

There is no ambiguity to this statement. If I purchased this product, I would expect a no questions asked replacement until I got one the proper color.

 

[MnFish1]

@Bulk Reef Supply What gives?

at 7:28 Elliot with Ryan by his side says:

"quick tip if you ever look into the bottle and the fluid inside is clear, throw it away, doesn't work, it should be like a darker rose color sometimes it actually does come out of the factory that way, but just make sure the one your using is viable"

There is no ambiguity to this statement. If I purchased this product, I would expect a no questions asked replacement until I got one the proper color.

Correct. Either change the video (they may have a new supplier) - or refund/replace

 

[drolmaeye]

The product data sheet describes it as colorless:

https://www.hikariusa.com/img/pds/PDS_PraziPro.pdf

There is no explicit justification in the video for discarding colorless product. I'm curious where the guest's criteria come from?

 

[jda]

Please, pretty please, never believe BRS on anything without checking for a verification source. These are infomercials designed to sell products first. BRS has a bad track record of just disappearing and forgetting about videos that are proven wrong and age poorly.

Come on here, go to the disease forum and let those folks help you. @Jay Hemdal is beyond good and helps a lot.

 

[MnFish1]

Please, pretty please, never believe BRS on anything without checking for a verification source. These are infomercials designed to sell products first. BRS has a bad track record of just disappearing and forgetting about videos that are proven wrong and age poorly.

Come on here, go to the disease forum and let those folks help you. @Jay Hemdal is beyond good and helps a lot.

The problem (agree with you) - is that they may use a different product - there are multiple possibilities of praziquantel available - some of which are expired - are clear - some are discolored - Its important to contact the vendor to determine exactly which praziquantel they are receiving.

 

[Spare time]

BRS makes a lot of good videos, but their disease one isn't.

 

[JaimeAdams]

I've been using for a decade and I guess I can see the rose color, but I had e always called it clear and have always had it work as intended in a professional setting going on a decade.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Here is my problem - we mostly used bulk Praziquantel powder, not Prazipro. Then, my staff did most of the actual treatment additions (grin). The few times I've used it, the product looked clear with a light pink hue when looking down on it, but less tinted when poured out.

Jay

 

[drolmaeye]

Here is my problem - we mostly used bulk Praziquantel powder, not Prazipro. Then, my staff did most of the actual treatment additions (grin). The few times I've used it, the product looked clear with a light pink hue when looking down on it, but less tinted when poured out.

Jay

So, off-topic AND not really my business, but curious enough to ask if you currently keep (or ever kept!?) aquariums at home.

 

[MnFish1]

Please, pretty please, never believe BRS on anything without checking for a verification source. These are infomercials designed to sell products first. BRS has a bad track record of just disappearing and forgetting about videos that are proven wrong and age poorly.

Come on here, go to the disease forum and let those folks help you. @Jay Hemdal is beyond good and helps a lot.

This I think is an incorrect comment - in general - if it's a specific question about a disease, etc - maybe.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

So, off-topic AND not really my business, but curious enough to ask if you currently keep (or ever kept!?) aquariums at home.

When I was younger I had many tanks, mostly marine (from 1968-1988). While working in public aquariums, I didn't keep tanks at home much - I was working 50+ hours a week and just didn't want more aquariums to take care of. I did set up a dozen or so mini-aquariums at one point to use as models for a book. Then, 3 years ago, when I "retired", I bought a 16 gallon AIO. Everything has gotten so expensive, now that I have the time to devote to aquariums, I don't have the funds (grin).

Jay

 

[Bulk Reef Supply]

I'll dig further into this with the vendor we work with on this to confirm if the statement is true. Once I hear back, I'll be sure to update and clarify.

 

[Bulk Reef Supply]

I do apologize for such a delay in following up on this. I wanted to thoroughly investigate this with the team that makes PraziPro and ensure I have the most accurate information to update you all with here (and will be added to the video in the form of a disclaimer).

1. PraziPro (specifically, not all praziquantel products) is typically clear, but may have a slight pink tint in the bottle due to density and depth of the product or some color bleed from the bottle (looks pink in the bottle but clear in a cup). There are very rare instances, when very specific temperature and humidity conditions exist during production when the color will be a bit more pink than clear. The only colors that really matter are (1) if the color is a dark yellow or burnt orange color typically the product has gotten too hot and if it is milky white or has white clumps, it has frozen. It should not be used in either instance. The comment about if the product is clear it is expired is completely inaccurate and has no foundation.

2. Any comments in this video regarding using any method outside of the bottle instructions should be done so with caution and after a lot of research. Eliot being a person that treats fish professionally and has these fish and their conditions closely monitored will find more success with such methods than the average hobbyist.

3. PraziPro (specifically) doesn't feed bacteria causing cloudiness, its just a reaction of the ingredients and tank water. The water will typically not stay cloudy once PraziPro is fully mixed with the water unless overdosed

4. PraziPro hasn't been found to be too harsh with wrasses in the developers experience, though how each living thing reacts to medication and environmental conditions isn't the exact same for each individual every time. As with any fish and medication, make sure you watch it closely and observe for signs of stress from treatment.

5. PraziPro itself does not strip oxygen from the water unless overdosed or used with sulfur or sulfinite-based water conditioners or additives.

6. PraziPro could theoretically be used with other medications, however, this is only under certain conditions. Due to this and the ability for hobby grade equipment and frequency of monitoring needed it is recommended to only use one medication at a time as mentioned in this series.

We appreciate the questions regarding this, while Eliot and Ryan did adapt from Eliot's approach and method that he's used for years we now have a deeper understanding of PraziPro and how it works. If you have any further questions on this, please let me know!

 

[drolmaeye]

I do apologize for such a delay in following up on this. I wanted to thoroughly investigate this with the team that makes PraziPro and ensure I have the most accurate information to update you all with here (and will be added to the video in the form of a disclaimer).

1. PraziPro (specifically, not all praziquantel products) is typically clear, but may have a slight pink tint in the bottle due to density and depth of the product or some color bleed from the bottle (looks pink in the bottle but clear in a cup). There are very rare instances, when very specific temperature and humidity conditions exist during production when the color will be a bit more pink than clear. The only colors that really matter are (1) if the color is a dark yellow or burnt orange color typically the product has gotten too hot and if it is milky white or has white clumps, it has frozen. It should not be used in either instance. The comment about if the product is clear it is expired is completely inaccurate and has no foundation.

2. Any comments in this video regarding using any method outside of the bottle instructions should be done so with caution and after a lot of research. Eliot being a person that treats fish professionally and has these fish and their conditions closely monitored will find more success with such methods than the average hobbyist.

3. PraziPro (specifically) doesn't feed bacteria causing cloudiness, its just a reaction of the ingredients and tank water. The water will typically not stay cloudy once PraziPro is fully mixed with the water unless overdosed

4. PraziPro hasn't been found to be too harsh with wrasses in the developers experience, though how each living thing reacts to medication and environmental conditions isn't the exact same for each individual every time. As with any fish and medication, make sure you watch it closely and observe for signs of stress from treatment.

5. PraziPro itself does not strip oxygen from the water unless overdosed or used with sulfur or sulfinite-based water conditioners or additives.

6. PraziPro could theoretically be used with other medications, however, this is only under certain conditions. Due to this and the ability for hobby grade equipment and frequency of monitoring needed it is recommended to only use one medication at a time as mentioned in this series.

We appreciate the questions regarding this, while Eliot and Ryan did adapt from Eliot's approach and method that he's used for years we now have a deeper understanding of PraziPro and how it works. If you have any further questions on this, please let me know!

Thank you for taking the time to follow up, and for ultimately providing such an informative and detailed response. Two thumbs way up from me.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I do apologize for such a delay in following up on this. I wanted to thoroughly investigate this with the team that makes PraziPro and ensure I have the most accurate information to update you all with here (and will be added to the video in the form of a disclaimer).

1. PraziPro (specifically, not all praziquantel products) is typically clear, but may have a slight pink tint in the bottle due to density and depth of the product or some color bleed from the bottle (looks pink in the bottle but clear in a cup). There are very rare instances, when very specific temperature and humidity conditions exist during production when the color will be a bit more pink than clear. The only colors that really matter are (1) if the color is a dark yellow or burnt orange color typically the product has gotten too hot and if it is milky white or has white clumps, it has frozen. It should not be used in either instance. The comment about if the product is clear it is expired is completely inaccurate and has no foundation.

2. Any comments in this video regarding using any method outside of the bottle instructions should be done so with caution and after a lot of research. Eliot being a person that treats fish professionally and has these fish and their conditions closely monitored will find more success with such methods than the average hobbyist.

3. PraziPro (specifically) doesn't feed bacteria causing cloudiness, its just a reaction of the ingredients and tank water. The water will typically not stay cloudy once PraziPro is fully mixed with the water unless overdosed

4. PraziPro hasn't been found to be too harsh with wrasses in the developers experience, though how each living thing reacts to medication and environmental conditions isn't the exact same for each individual every time. As with any fish and medication, make sure you watch it closely and observe for signs of stress from treatment.

5. PraziPro itself does not strip oxygen from the water unless overdosed or used with sulfur or sulfinite-based water conditioners or additives.

6. PraziPro could theoretically be used with other medications, however, this is only under certain conditions. Due to this and the ability for hobby grade equipment and frequency of monitoring needed it is recommended to only use one medication at a time as mentioned in this series.

We appreciate the questions regarding this, while Eliot and Ryan did adapt from Eliot's approach and method that he's used for years we now have a deeper understanding of PraziPro and how it works. If you have any further questions on this, please let me know!

Hi - thanks for the information. It all looks good except this statement is not quite correct:

3. PraziPro (specifically) doesn't feed bacteria causing cloudiness, its just a reaction of the ingredients and tank water. The water will typically not stay cloudy once PraziPro is fully mixed with the water unless overdosed.

The initial cloudiness when you add Prazipro is caused by the immediate precipitation of the praziquantel when it is diluted from the solvent. The same is seen if you use ethanol as a solvent. The cloudiness that forms later is caused by heterotrophic bacteria that feeds on the glycol solvent. This is essentially the same as carbon dosing. That's why you need to add good aeration after dosing prazipro.

I've asked John Kuhns (the inventor of Prazipro) for additional details as he and I go way back...however, I've not been able to reach him, I think he has finally truly retired after he sold his hobby/science store....

Jay

 

[Bulk Reef Supply]

Hi - thanks for the information. It all looks good except this statement is not quite correct:

3. PraziPro (specifically) doesn't feed bacteria causing cloudiness, its just a reaction of the ingredients and tank water. The water will typically not stay cloudy once PraziPro is fully mixed with the water unless overdosed.

The initial cloudiness when you add Prazipro is caused by the immediate precipitation of the praziquantel when it is diluted from the solvent. The same is seen if you use ethanol as a solvent. The cloudiness that forms later is caused by heterotrophic bacteria that feeds on the glycol solvent. This is essentially the same as carbon dosing. That's why you need to add good aeration after dosing prazipro.

I've asked John Kuhns (the inventor of Prazipro) for additional details as he and I go way back...however, I've not been able to reach him, I think he has finally truly retired after he sold his hobby/science store....

Jay

Interesting. The person I was discussing this with in relation to the video here didn't mention this part and said it doesn't feed bacteria. Though I can see this description being valid unless formulation changed some how. If you hear back from John at all I'd love to hear his thoughts/expertise on this!