Another Cyano Frustration Post

[FriendoFish]

Uh so… I actually can’t test my phosphates at the moment because I lost my test kit and I’m having trouble getting ahold of a new one (I should have one by Friday). But I’ve never really had problems with it especially since I started using the chemipure. I was going to add phyto and pods anyways because I think more tank biodiversity is good in general but hearing it could help with the cyano means I’ll make it more of a priority. I just want to know what could be causing it so I can fix it. Like I don’t know what could be making my nutrient levels so high that I constantly have it in my tank.

 

[xCry0x]

I've always had cyano issues when the nutrients in my tank get out of whack.

I tried bio pellets and had awful cyano for months until I removed the pellets.

I just spun up a reactor with gfo to fight an expected nutrient spike after a flucanazol treatment. Nutrients never spiked but now I have diatoms and cyano.

I will say, I've used chemiclean twice in the past for cyano and it worked fantastically.

 

[FriendoFish]

I've always had cyano issues when the nutrients in my tank get out of whack.

I tried bio pellets and had awful cyano for months until I removed the pellets.

I just spun up a reactor with gfo to fight an expected nutrient spike after a flucanazol treatment. Nutrients never spiked but now I have diatoms and cyano.

I will say, I've used chemiclean twice in the past for cyano and it worked fantastically.

Oof. I feel your pain. I had diatoms when I first started my tank and it was AWFUL!

Was your experience fine with the Chemiclean? Based on what I’ve read, I feel like a lot of people see it work but then it causes more long term problems than it’s worth. I’m also just trying to get to the bottom of why I have had cyano for so long because I wouldn’t want it to return after I use the chemiclean.

 

[AwakenedReefer]

hen cyano showes up in my tanks, the problem may have been related to my freshwater source.
Honestly I would be using some lazy/convenient alternative from the grocery store. Usually the 5 gallon refill machines.

A couple months ago I had it show up again and that’s exactly what I was doing.
This time I tried KZ cyano clean and it worked great. I believe it adds a bacteria the out competes the cyano.
Now I just add it once every week or two after the water change and it’s been gone ever since.

That’s my perspective on this topic.

 

[WVNed]

I have a roaring cyano outbreak in my tank.

But I have 4 tanks and not just one. They are on a common sump an all share the same chemistry.

Only one of the 4 has cyano. This has happened before. It hasn't even always been the same tank that has the outbreak

So I no longer think it has much to do with water chemistry.
I have 7 large pumps in the tank. It has lots of flow. I dont think it is that.
The lights are set the way they have been for years with new bulbs. I dont think it is that.
I am aerating my system in my sump. That helped a bit but didnt get rid of it.

I am going to try the method SunnyX posted. The stuffs in the mail or maybe upstairs in a box I haven't opened yet.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/extreme-water-clarity-and-cyano-eradication-made-easy.916381/

My brother in law is with the Army Corps of Engineers and deals with water issues like large cyano and red tide outbreaks. They have many theories why they happen but no way to predict or fight them yet.

The idea that no ecosystem can be healthy unless the bottom of it's food chain is healthy appeals to me and makes logical sense. So bacteria and microfauna should come first.

I did away with the UV last year. I think it's time to run the ozone every 3rd day for a few hours, add the Microbacter 7
with coral snow and upgrade my skimmer.

We will see what happens.

I have run Chemiclean many times. It works but doesnt fix why you get cyano in the first place so it eventually comes back sooner or later. I have never seen any bad effects from it.

 

[xCry0x]

Oof. I feel your pain. I had diatoms when I first started my tank and it was AWFUL!

Was your experience fine with the Chemiclean? Based on what I’ve read, I feel like a lot of people see it work but then it causes more long term problems than it’s worth. I’m also just trying to get to the bottom of why I have had cyano for so long because I wouldn’t want it to return after I use the chemiclean.

Never had issues! First tank I used it in never had it come back.

Same with second tank.

My understanding is that it dies off then generally gets outcompeted.

And ya, diatomes this time are funny because the tank has been running for years lol..

 

[HomebroodExotics]

I would try mb7/clean or Dr Tim's waste away to out compete the Cyano.

 

[PBar]

no problem! I appreciate the help!
- Yes, though it is impossible to get all of it.
- Yes. From my LFS.
- I don’t think so? I get really confused when it comes to circulation stuff, but so far as I can tell pretty much the whole tank has some water movement (though some parts have more than others). The only parts that might not are the little caves in the live rock.
- No, unless reef chili once a week counts (spot fed to my corals). I feed New Life Spectrum pellets most days and like a quarter block-ish of frozen mysis once or twice a week. If I feed mysis, I won’t feed NLS that day.

Thanks!
I will assume that the water of your LFS is appropriate.
What strikes me your description of the picture “24h after water change”.
Cyano are growing really fast there.

You seem to be doing things right… not clear yet if is if there is something hidden fuelling it… or it is just cyano without competition…

I’ll tell you what I would do in my tank:
- 25% water change - removing all cyano
- Followed by a 2 days blackout.
(Reasoning: decrease the amount of cyano before start the battle)
- Lights back… probably no cyano and then use chemiclean treatment (attention to this process! Many things to be considered, particularly aeration)
- Water change.
- After that, dose some bacteria (Microbacter7, KZ, Dr Tim…) No miracle alone, but might help (empirical)
- Adding pods? I like the idea as well, good second order effects in the tank.

Cheers!

 

[FriendoFish]

Wow okay this is all so helpful!

Based on what everyone’s said it sounds to me like the best option is to dose Chemiclean, then add some kind of bacteria, and finally add copepods and start feeding phyto for more long-term control. Does this sound right to everyone?

Also, would this package from Algaebarn work? Or should I get a bacteria that more specifically for cleaning you think? https://www.algaebarn.com/shop/live-foods/combo-packs/ultimate-ecopack/#reviews

Thanks again for all the help!

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

Wow okay this is all so helpful!

Based on what everyone’s said it sounds to me like the best option is to dose Chemiclean, then add some kind of bacteria, and finally add copepods and start feeding phyto for more long-term control. Does this sound right to everyone?

Also, would this package from Algaebarn work? Or should I get a bacteria that more specifically for cleaning you think? https://www.algaebarn.com/shop/live-foods/combo-packs/ultimate-ecopack/#reviews

Thanks again for all the help!

Personally I would just get the phyto and not the other 2. I would try to get live cultured phyto from a hobbyist instead of buying corporate bottled stuff.

Pods are already in your tank, adding more wont help at all, they dont eat cyano or hair algae. But they will eat the phyto that you will feed to your tank, which will encourage them to reproduce more.

The PNS combo seems unneccessary to me, I never heard of it, I would just get MB7

 

[Jlew766]

I had a cyano outbreak for 6 months... lost alot of coral, couldn't shake it. I'd do the chemiclean and 3 day blackout periods and it'd look great and then in week it'd come back. But I found the solution at lest for me and have been cyano free since. I was dosing vibrant along with no-pox. My nitrates and phosphates were 00.00. I believe the cyano was out competing everything for the little available nutrients. I stopped dosing every thing and let the nutrients rise only doing water changes with rodi water(which I always did anyway) about a month to two later all cyano was gone and I started dosing nopox again to get my no3 and po4 down to 5 and .06. Been gone ever since.

 

[AndrewJG]

I had (until recently) Cyano for the last 6 months, used Chemic clean which works great but it came gradually back.

After some research I decided to do a multi-pronged approach which I think has worked, the method is based on trying to improve biodiversity in order to limit the Cyano's growth as follows:

1) Reduced the amount of white light in favour of blue (nearer 23,000k).
2) Dose large amount of POD's every 3 or 4 months.
3) Weekly dose of AF Life source.
4) Twice weekly dose of Phyto.
5) Weekly dose of home made reef snow with MB7 mixed in.

It has worked for me.

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

Wow okay this is all so helpful!

Based on what everyone’s said it sounds to me like the best option is to dose Chemiclean, then add some kind of bacteria, and finally add copepods and start feeding phyto for more long-term control. Does this sound right to everyone?

Also, would this package from Algaebarn work? Or should I get a bacteria that more specifically for cleaning you think? https://www.algaebarn.com/shop/live-foods/combo-packs/ultimate-ecopack/#reviews

Thanks again for all the help!

Regarding the Hydrospace products in the Ultimate Ecopack, I could say a few things as I manage the company and know a little about the those products.

The bacterium in PNS ProBio is Rhodopseudomonas palustris. You may find it interesting that R. palustris belongs to the broad group of purple non-sulfur bacteria (PNSB), which actually are ancestors of cyanobacteria. It shares a very similar niche to cyanobacteria in that both are photosynthetic and both can utilize various forms of dissolved organic matter. Both, in fact, are found to occur abundantly on and near corals in the wild. One major difference is that R. palustris prefers anaerobic environments, whereas cyanobacteria prefer aerobic environments (which is why we typically see R. palustris and other PNSB growing right under a surface layer of cyano, and perhaps some algae, in Winogradsky columns). Despite each group occupying preferred zones based on O2 concentration, R. palustris can intrude upon cyanobacteria by secreting certain antibiotics such as streptomycin. In short, based on available scientific literature as well as observations by ourselves and our users, R. palustris appears to be a very strong competitor of cyanobacteria.

To that end, let's take a look at the heterotrophy of each. R. palustris readily utilizes organic carbon for growth, whereas most cyanobacteria do not. In fact, some cyano are strictly autotrophic, and many of those facultatively 'heterotrophic' cyano species do not really grow on organics, but only use them to make PHB (a stored energy source, the same sort of stuff biopellets are made out of, actually). Anyway, what this means is that we can target R. palustris (a highly desirable probiotic bacterium) for growth by dosing acetate (e.g., vinegar), whilst the cyano (a nuisance bacterium) will not benefit from the addition of acetate much if at all. I'll stress that there are many, many species of benthic cyanobacteria that may colonize an aquarium, so these are generalities.

PNS YelloSno, while nominally a coral food, is also a microbial food. It was developed, in fact, as a companion to PNS ProBio in order to support growth of those bacteria as it is rich in B vitamins. It includes the entire B vitamin complex but is particularly rich in B12 (cobalamin). Most living things require cobalamin, which is produced only by a small subset of bacteria and archaea. Cobalamin biosynthesis in marine ecosystems is accomplished by three major groups: chemoautotrophic Thaumarchaeota, certain heterotrophic Proteobacteria and cyanobacteria. As it happens, R. palustris belongs to the Proteobacteria and can indeed synthesize its own cobalamin (though it actually benefits from other B vitamins in YelloSno). But the cobalamin is noteworthy here because of its involvement in promoting the growth of microbes that compete with cyano. This would be most aquarium microbes, in fact, as most rely on external sources of cobalamin (while cyano does not). For example, many nitrifying bacteria (e.g. Nitrobacter) can barely grow at all without an exogenous cobalamin source.

So yes, while YelloSno is explicitly formulated for corals (both corals and zooxanthellae require exogenous cobalamin for their survival and health), it can feed the whole food chain from the microbial community upwards. In so doing, it nourishes microbes that depend on cobalamin and other B vitamins, increasing diversity of the microbiome, thereby increasing competitive pressure on cyanobacteria.

While the Ultimate Ecopack wasn't specifically selected for its ability to curb cyano growth per se, its holistic ecological effect certainly can promote a rich and diverse community of cyano competitors, including the phyto (both the Iso and Thal in OceanMagik are cobalamin-dependent). I hope that all makes sense!