Another denitrification biological thread

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Randy what is your take on sulfur denitrators. .. Do they use up any phosphate.?
. . .

Very little. Lots of nitrate reduction, and alk depletion.

 

[vio]

Very little. Lots of nitrate reduction, and alk depletion.

True, my Alk. is 7.5 max. 8 dKH , effluent from reactor is 7 dKH or less , but that nothing , easy fix. just increase Alk. a bit, the beauty is so STEADY ( Nitrate) then Rowa ( GFO ) take over , looks like perfect mach , extend the life of GFO. Not to mention , i use 90 Gal. refuge (full of Pukani ) before the water enter in main tank.

 

[vio]

Vio. I like your dyi sulfur units. Do they control phosphate at all. I had bio pellets and hated them.

May, not much , i will found up one day, how much exact, but the great think works very steady, i check almost every 2 days ( Nitrate) is all the time 2.5 to 3 ppm, make so good balance with GFO ( Rowa) i got almost 2 months old GFO , clean the front Acrylic side , once a week. The Bio pellets , works also, but , but, but , you need lots of experience how works, that way , most ppl. got, confuse or despoilment , hard to know how much Pellets you need, water flow true reactor make a HUGE dif. to much is NO good , less still NO good ( hydrogen sulfur ) is like driving Ferrari , after the party. Works well , but complicate , NOT everything in market ( Pellets) works good , short ans. give up, is a mess , NOT to mention you need great Protein Skimmer , if you like complicate stuff , Bio-Pellets is the ans. Same like Sulfur filter , you still have to control PO4 dif. way.

 

[Casey-Reef]

Search for Donavans nitrate destroyer filter. It's an awesome DIY filter that is cheap, easy, and proven.

 

[Shaun Sweeney]

ok. So I have large system. 600 gallon plus. In the past used DSB in my 300 gallon sump to control nitrate. I trashed it and got 14 Marine pure bio blocks and along wit hmy live rocks to control nitrate. Well the blocks been in low flow are not denting the nitrate. I was planning on perhaps putting the blocks in a container so only tops of them get flow..

Another thought is to install a large 6 inch round by 4 foot tube full of bio media. And allow tank wAter to pass through. The end of the tube would lack oxygen for nitrate conversion to gas with possible feed for some vodka or vinegar Addition to feed bacteria.

Other thought. Is to take some of the blocks and use that media in the reactor. Fabricate some type of square media reactor to house let's say five of these blocks and feed it.

Thoughts. Please. Question also. If the blocks in the sump are only creating nitrate. A nitrate factor like in the days of bio balls in a drip plate, The will anyreactor be able to handle the nitrate. ...?

Lots of good questions that I can't answer but I can say that the bio pure blocks break down pretty easy so they won't take much current.

 

[chicago]

Yep the marine bio pure blocks are subjects of many threads.. i have 14 or so in my sump...I am sending out the triton test on my tank water and will be interesting to see what it says about Aluminum.
Back to this thread.. i understand that the Donaovan nitrate destroyer (similar to cargon dosing your tank - does not use sulfur) adds the carbon source in a separate container.. In other words,, the process of denitrification and feeding the bacteria for de -nitrification occurs within a controlled area - only within the housing of the media.. Lets say like a 4 inch pvc tube by 3 feet high.. The thought is that the issues of cyno and other side effects are limited.

From what I have read it seems that only Carbon dosing form of De-Nitrification has the added benefit of phosphate reduction. I have used bio- pellets in the past and did not notice phosphate reduction and frankly to much of a pain to adjust all the time... I might convert it over to a sulfur denitrification just to see how it works. With some modifications - added bottom plate it might work well. right now it is just collecting dust..

thanks all.

 

[volcano1]

Sorry
I ran a 600 gallon system with the sulpher reactor. I may go back to it, if I can’t get my nutrient reduction better in line. I used a Midwest aquatics xl. , which is basically the same as the koralin unit.

 

[cvicente]

I run a DIY batch denitrator with vodka. Six 4 hour cycles per day, 1.1ml of vodka on each cycle. Works great !

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I run a DIY batch denitrator with vodka. Six 4 hour cycles per day, 1.1ml of vodka on each cycle. Works great !

What do you consider to be the advantages of using vodka that way over direct aquarium addition?

 

[chicago]

From my readings and conversations those who do the carbon dosing ( vinegar, sugar or vodka) in more closed unit as a opposed to the entire tank have less issues with bacteria outbreaks and slim deposits for lack of better description. Some have stated that the outbreaks in the entire tank of bacteria have had an effect on sps. The extent of such does not seem to be to terrible. I guess perhaps, if you have some type of tower or vat that holds your media for the tank... then dosing carbon to it rather than the tank might be preferred.

VO.. what are doing currently to handle the nitrate. If you go back to the sulfur what do you use to handle phosphate export. ?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

IMO, there are potential advantages and disadvantages to carbon denitrator/enclosed dosing vs direct dosing, and I chose direct dosing, but I just wanted to hear what others reasons were. :)

 

[chicago]

Yep the pro's and con's list... The reality is none of these really export phosphate to the point that we can do away with other methods such as rowaphose.

Turf scrubbing i used in the past.. to messy and a pain on a large system.. i was going to try chealto ball similar to seen on BRS... but I am thinking that will not handle my heavy load of 40 plus angles and wrasses..

bummer is my DSB did a great job until it got way to dirty... that is a nice story with some great pics of me shoveling sand out of the sump

 

[nanomania]

Mine is a "skimmerless sumpless no waterchange system", with medium bioload and only an undersized chaeto reactor.

Im dosing 3ml of vodka, and i prefer keeping my no3 at no less than 15. Got a 1.5" sand 2-3mm and much less recomended liverocks then required.. tank is a year old.

 

[cvicente]

What do you consider to be the advantages of using vodka that way over direct aquarium addition?

The carbon source is consumed inside the denitrator before the water is returned to the main display, this way the coral holobiont is not altered by the carbon source. This technique greatly reduces the chances of RTN.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The carbon source is consumed inside the denitrator before the water is returned to the main display, this way the coral holobiont is not altered by the carbon source. This technique greatly reduces the chances of RTN.

Does it? Is there any clear evidence that organic carbon dosing causes RTN?

 

[cvicente]

Does it? Is there any clear evidence that organic carbon dosing causes RTN?

You should read the work of Dr. Rowher of the Scripps Institution of Oceanograhy.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You should read the work of Dr. Rowher of the Scripps Institution of Oceanograhy.

Do you have a link to the specific evidence?

 

[cvicente]

Do you have a link to the specific evidence?

https://scripps.ucsd.edu/projects/coralreefsystems/scientific-team/133-2/
Google the publications at the end of the list.

 

[SteadyC]

Like this one? http://www.int-res.com/abstracts/meps/v314/p119-125/

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

https://scripps.ucsd.edu/projects/coralreefsystems/scientific-team/133-2/
Google the publications at the end of the list.

I accept that there is a reasonable hypothesis that organic carbon dosing could cause coral issues in a reef tank, and accept that folks might reasonably choose to not do or do it remotely out of fear for causing growth of problematic bacteria (that was my fear when folks first started suggesting it years ago).

But that said, those data (at least in the above posted article) do not convince me. In that experiment, the corals were placed alone in an aquarium with sugars dosed (huge dose, no nutrient monitoring after organic dosing) . There is literally no other bacteria or surfaces for the bacteria to grow on except what comes in on the coral (at least they mention none). It seems a highly skewed experiment, but I agree that it shows the theoretical possibility.

That said, what is the real risk? Do people see RTN when dosing vinegar or vodka (not sugars) to a real reef tank? I've really not noticed much of a correlation between the incidence of organic carbon dosing and RTN (compared to not using organic carbon dosing and having RTN).

Both RTN and organic carbon dosing are reasonably common in reef tanks. Has anyone notice a substantial correlation that goes beyond what one would expect for two common things to occur together compared to apart?