Another denitrification biological thread

[vio]

more pics.

 

[vio]

I dose all kind of Bacteria , my favors is Bac 7 made by Bright-well,
If you have lots of SPS, do NOT dose direct in main Tank Display , i realize some RTN at base .

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Most of the n and p and c in the food is used by the fish that eats it for growth and staying alive. There is ammonia and co2 generated of course but I’m Would think it’s a small percentage of the total c n p in the food

No, that’s not true. Most of the N and P is released (I showed the data in an article on phosphate , but it’s true for all animals, including people and is very well known even for fish).

 

[MnFish1]

No, that’s not true. Most of the N and P is released (I showed the data in an article on phosphate , but it’s true for all animals, including people and is very well known even for fish).

In steady state yes that’s true During periods of growth weight gain more is retained. I guess I was basing it on he fact that most is the fish on our tanks are juvenile and growing leading to more retention

 

[cumbeje]

I wondering what is the relationship with GHA and nitrates. I keep my phosphates low with GFO in 700 gallon water volume. My nitrates spiked around 14 ppm. Tank is 1 year old. Nitrates have gone down too around 8 ppm. So without phosphates you can still have GHA. What confuses me is you will see tanks with much higher nitrates with no algae. I am thinking about increasing my phosphates because of suggestion from WWC. He said if you have higher nitrates should have hugher phosphates in tbe .08 range. He said there is a ratio that he couldn't actually explain but believed. What do you think?

 

[MnFish1]

I wondering what is the relationship with GHA and nitrates. I keep my phosphates low with GFO in 700 gallon water volume. My nitrates spiked around 14 ppm. Tank is 1 year old. Nitrates have gone down too around 8 ppm. So without phosphates you can still have GHA. What confuses me is you will see tanks with much higher nitrates with no algae. I am thinking about increasing my phosphates because of suggestion from WWC. He said if you have higher nitrates should have hugher phosphates in tbe .08 range. He said there is a ratio that he couldn't actually explain but believed. What do you think?

Algae etc will grow until they reach steady state with the nutrient levels in the tank. So you can have lots of algae and no po4 or nitrates measured in on a rest kit If you have algae you have po4 and r nitrate in excess.

 

[cumbeje]

Algae etc will grow until they reach steady state with the nutrient levels in the tank. So you can have lots of algae and no po4 or nitrates measured in on a rest kit If you have algae you have po4 and r nitrate in excess.

I understand the principle of nutrients but I had zero phosphates and I can confirm this because I can raise phosphates by reducing GFO. So GHA most be using nitrates exclusively or some other nutrient.

 

[Sodaman227]

ok. So I have large system. 600 gallon plus. In the past used DSB in my 300 gallon sump to control nitrate. I trashed it and got 14 Marine pure bio blocks and along wit hmy live rocks to control nitrate. Well the blocks been in low flow are not denting the nitrate. I was planning on perhaps putting the blocks in a container so only tops of them get flow..

Another thought is to install a large 6 inch round by 4 foot tube full of bio media. And allow tank wAter to pass through. The end of the tube would lack oxygen for nitrate conversion to gas with possible feed for some vodka or vinegar Addition to feed bacteria.

Other thought. Is to take some of the blocks and use that media in the reactor. Fabricate some type of square media reactor to house let's say five of these blocks and feed it.

Thoughts. Please. Question also. If the blocks in the sump are only creating nitrate. A nitrate factor like in the days of bio balls in a drip plate, The will anyreactor be able to handle the nitrate. ...?

Marine depo has a sulfur denitrificator. It’s what you are looking for. Mine works great!

 

[SteadyC]

Here are some guides that may help, but I think you can ramp up dosing faster than these articles recommend:

Vinegar Dosing Methodology for the Marine Aquarium
http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index...ar-dosing-methodology-for-the-marine-aquarium

Vodka Dosing...Distilled!
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php

Was this “In my experience, I started with using 15mL vinegar per 100 gallons of water volume and had no problems. I increased weekly by 15mL vinegar per 100 gallons up to 45mL per 100 gallons.” 45mL per day, or per week? I assume per day, looking at the corresponding Vodka article info, it used per day.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Was this “In my experience, I started with using 15mL vinegar per 100 gallons of water volume and had no problems. I increased weekly by 15mL vinegar per 100 gallons up to 45mL per 100 gallons.” 45mL per day, or per week? I assume per day, looking at the corresponding Vodka article info, it used per day.

I think that statement is from Cliff, not from me, but the final end dose is a reasonable dose per day.

At times I dosed more than 2 mL vinegar per gallon of tank system total water volume per day (at least based on the BRS doser rated pump speed, I never actually measured it), but that was too much, with the water hazy and some organisms browned up. About 0.4 mL vinegar per gallon per day was a more typical dose.

I don't generally think slow dosing ramp up is needed when starting, but it doesn't hurt to do so.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I wondering what is the relationship with GHA and nitrates. I keep my phosphates low with GFO in 700 gallon water volume. My nitrates spiked around 14 ppm. Tank is 1 year old. Nitrates have gone down too around 8 ppm. So without phosphates you can still have GHA. What confuses me is you will see tanks with much higher nitrates with no algae. I am thinking about increasing my phosphates because of suggestion from WWC. He said if you have higher nitrates should have hugher phosphates in tbe .08 range. He said there is a ratio that he couldn't actually explain but believed. What do you think?

If sources of N (ammonia, nitrate, etc.) are low enough (say, 0.00001 ppm N), they will limit the growth of algae. As they get higher (say, around a few ppm nitrate), that limitation comes off and something else will be come limiting (phosphate, trace elements, light, space, etc.). That may happen in the same concentration range that reefers typically keep nitrate. Beyond that level (say, going from 10 ppm upwards), the amount of nitrate won't have any impact on algae growth since it is already available in excess. SO dropping nitrate from 200 to 50 ppm may make no difference to algae growth rates.

 

[chicago]

Randy what is your take on sulfur denitrators. .. Do they use up any phosphate.?
. . .

 

[SteadyC]

I think that statement is from Cliff, not from me, but the final end dose is a reasonable dose per day.

At times I dosed more than 2 mL vinegar per gallon of tank system total water volume per day (at least based on the BRS doser rated pump speed, I never actually measured it), but that was too much, with the water hazy and some organisms browned up. About 0.4 mL vinegar per gallon per day was a more typical dose.

I don't generally think slow dosing ramp up is needed when starting, but it doesn't hurt to do so.

I guess I assumed you wrote all articles ;). Ok, so what I got out of this, is I have room to up my dose if I want/need. Right now, I add 45 mL of vinegar to my kalk, 10 gallon container that lasts a week, so 45mL/week, which is roughly 6.42 mL/day. On a 100 gallon tank, you’re saying 40 mL per day is more typical, so if I need I can increase my dose. I have wondered if I were nearing too much vinegar, but I guess not ;). Thanks!

 

[cumbeje]

If sources of N (ammonia, nitrate, etc.) are low enough (say, 0.00001 ppm N), they will limit the growth of algae. As they get higher (say, around a few ppm nitrate), that limitation comes off and something else will be come limiting (phosphate, trace elements, light, space, etc.). That may happen in the same concentration range that reefers typically keep nitrate. Beyond that level (say, going from 10 ppm upwards), the amount of nitrate won't have any impact on algae growth since it is already available in excess. SO dropping nitrate from 200 to 50 ppm may make no difference to algae growth rates.

So if my phosphates are kept at close to 0 ppm shouldn't that be a limiting factor for GHA growth? Yet I do have GHA growth. I noticed GHA growth once I got past 4 ppm with phosphates at .03 ppm. Before the raise in nitrates above 4 ppm there was no GHA. What surprises me is we aren't talking about high nitrates. Nitrates are in the range of 8 ppm which many tanks keep a lot higher with no algae growth. My goal was to get nitrates for overall health of the tank because I think corals seem to be happier with some nitrates. So I my tank can I not have nitrates above 4 ppm?

 

[chicago]

I’m gojng back and forth between vsv dosing , vs. Red Sea dosing vs sulfur reactor ,, I have room for equipment. I also have a GHL Doser so can set and forget
..
Seems like the dosing Avenue helps more to remove phosphate. ?

 

[vio]

I’m gojng back and forth between vsv dosing , vs. Red Sea dosing vs sulfur reactor ,, I have room for equipment. I also have a GHL Doser so can set and forget
..
Seems like the dosing Avenue helps more to remove phosphate. ?

In my opinion , is ALL about "Balance" i use to dose Vodka, Vinegar , B.P. there is some issue with this source of Carbon , not all the corals " Love " the High density of Bacteria , in special SPS , hard to control a steady Nitrate #, you need to hold , monitor, control Nitrate, steady #, then you deal with PO4 , i think Sulfur Filter give better control , more steady.

 

[chicago]

Thank you vio. Does the sulfur reactor deuce phosphate at all? Thanks

 

[chicago]

Vio. I like your dyi sulfur units. Do they control phosphate at all. I had bio pellets and hated them.

 

[volcano1]

I ran a large one on my system. I did drop nitrate but didn’t seem to have any effect on phosphate. Be careful with the blocks in the sump if your going to add sps. Some report that they leach aluminum, and that’s not good for sps. The most cost effective way I found to reduce high phosphate in a large system is lanthanum chloride. I’d think that and a sulpher reactor would be the most cost effective.

 

[chicago]

Vo. When you say you ran a large one what are you referring to. Thanks. Yep. On the marine pure issue. Thanks