Another wrasse question

[i cant think]

So, I know recently I have been asking A LOT about different wrasses but, this is just a general one for fairy, flasher, leopards ect..
Why does it say “One male per tank” on a lot of the more peaceful wrasse, i.e. Cirrhilabrus Lubbocki? If you had an 8’ tank or something like that, wouldn’t there be enough room for Atleast 10-15 wrasse (say, 8-14 females and 2-3 males), in the wild these species of fish dont just keep to the one male rule, it’s usually multiple males/transitional males, multiple females and 1 big “boss” male that we call the super male. Has anyone tried to do something like this where there is multiple males to almost twice as many females?
Here’s just a photo I found of a harem of Paracheilinus filamentosus (Filamented flasher wrasse).

Here’s another photo I found of a Thalassoma lucasanum (Cortez rainbow wrasse) harem.

 

[blaxsun]

Why? Because many "peaceful" species (not necessarily just wrasses) still have an issue with another male or fish of the same species - sometimes it's another fish that has similar colors. Mandarin dragonets, flame hawkfish, dwarf angelfish, anthias, etc.

There are always exceptions of course, but even with large tanks (I have a 6') some species of fish will go out of their way to battle it out "just because".

I've got 4 damsels (blue devil, azure) together - no issues. And two dwarf angels (midnight and coral beauty) - no issues, but it did take them a week to work it out. And 5 anthias which haven't exhibited any issues - but 4 are female and the one male is a Red Fairy which can co-exist with the other two species (lyretail, marcia's).

You also have to remember that fish may also behave differently in a captive environment compared to their natural habitat.

 

[i cant think]

Why? Because many "peaceful" species (not necessarily just wrasses) still have an issue with another male or fish of the same species - sometimes it's another fish that has similar colors. Mandarin dragonets, flame hawkfish, dwarf angelfish, anthias, etc.

There are always exceptions of course, but even with large tanks (I have a 6') some species of fish will go out of their way to battle it out "just because".

I've got 4 damsels (blue devil, azure) together - no issues. And two dwarf angels (midnight and coral beauty) - no issues, but it did take them a week to work it out. And 5 anthias which haven't exhibited any issues - but 4 are female and the one male is a Red Fairy which can co-exist with the other two species (lyretail, marcia's).

You also have to remember that fish may also behave differently in a captive environment compared to their natural habitat.

That’s true, but I’m surprised more people with larger tanks haven’t tried it. I was thinking that because I have two Lubbocki males (Indonesian and Cebu) that coexist together, when or even if I end up with a larger tank (7-8’+), I could try getting 6 female Lubbock’s - 3 from Indonesia and 3 from Cebu to try a “true” harem of lubbocks. To me just 1 male to 2-3 females isn’t that natural, whereas two males to 6-8 females seems more natural.

 

[blaxsun]

That’s true, but I’m surprised more people with larger tanks haven’t tried it. I was thinking that because I have two Lubbocki males (Indonesian and Cebu) that coexist together, when or even if I end up with a larger tank (7-8’+), I could try getting 6 female Lubbock’s - 3 from Indonesia and 3 from Cebu to try a “true” harem of lubbocks. To me just 1 male to 2-3 females isn’t that natural, whereas two males to 6-8 females seems more natural.

It's because it's *expensive*, and more often than not it won't work (for whatever reason). But if you have a large tank and wallet, I encourage you to give this a try.

 

[i cant think]

It's because it's *expensive*, and more often than not it won't work (for whatever reason). But if you have a large tank and wallet, I encourage you to give this a try.

Haha, yeah it can be rather expensive - I mean for a lubbocki male over here it is around £30, so a female would be around £25. Times £25 by Atleast 6 and it would become £150 then add £60 onto it and the total for just the harem I would like would be £210.
I mainly used more common ones as an example because IMHO, the more common ones tend to pack more colour than the rarer wrasse like C. jordani or C. johnsoni

 

[blaxsun]

My two dwarf angels worked out because they were relatively tolerable fish, but I was also told it wasn't going to work. The 4 damsels I had were added in two batches, and three were blue devils. I was also flat out told this wasn't going to work, either - but it has. None of these fish were necessarily what I'd call "expensive", though.

On the other hand, I had a flame hawkfish chase another smaller one out of my tank, and a pair of clownfish that had originally accepted another smaller female killed it when I believe it changed to male. My LFS had 15 different clownfish in a smaller 60-gallon tank without issues for many years, which kind of goes against conventional thinking as well. It really depends.

 

[Waters]

In the wild these fish always have the option of leaving rather than undergo constant torment.....in our aquariums they are forced to see each other, all day long.

 

[i cant think]

In the wild these fish always have the option of leaving rather than undergo constant torment.....in our aquariums they are forced to see each other, all day long.

Yeah, but in a big enough aquarium, they have the territory options and can get away from other wrasse (Assuming the tank is 8 foot plus).

 

[Tamberav]

Because the females like to transition in captivity and then kill the resident male. Also cost and it’s difficult to find true females in the states.

 

[Waters]

Yeah, but in a big enough aquarium, they have the territory options and can get away from other wrasse (Assuming the tank is 8 foot plus).

I see what you are saying....but 8 foot in the ocean isn't much of anything except for fish that stick to their own, isolated territories. It is like you seeing your sworn enemy on the other side of a large room lol.

 

[i cant think]

I see what you are saying....but 8 foot in the ocean isn't much of anything except for fish that stick to their own, isolated territories. It is like you seeing your sworn enemy on the other side of a large room lol.

That’s very true,

Because the females like to transition in captivity and then kill the resident male. Also cost and it’s difficult to find true females in the states.

So how come people tend to manage two females and one male? Surely it’s the same thing just in a larger number.
Also, I understand the struggle for true females however, the UK gets more females than you would think - Theres been 5-7 unknown wrasse in my LFS and all of them were either female or transitioning

 

[Tamberav]

That’s very true,

So how come people tend to manage two females and one male? Surely it’s the same thing just in a larger number.
Also, I understand the struggle for true females however, the UK gets more females than you would think - Theres been 5-7 unknown wrasse in my LFS and all of them were either female or transitioning

Over a long period, they don't. It is not recommended to do a trio. The exception is leopard wrasses where they seem to stay female much easier.

 

[i cant think]

Over a long period, they don't. It is not recommended to do a trio. The exception is leopard wrasses where they seem to stay female much easier.

Ahh, also Anampses don’t seem to be one of the wrasse genera that always change to male no matter what.
I was just wondering if you had more females then it would slow the transitioning stage down.
Would this be possible with something like possum wrasses though?

 

[Tamberav]

Ahh, also Anampses don’t seem to be one of the wrasse genera that always change to male no matter what.
I was just wondering if you had more females then it would slow the transitioning stage down.
Would this be possible with something like possum wrasses though?

I would think possum wrasses would be fine. I don't think they will form a haram but tolerate each other better. Maybe pair off.