Anthias expert needed: Borbonius Anthias swimming down in corner

canadianeh

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I got this Borbonius Anthias on this past Sunday. Since then it has stayed in the back corner and swimming downward. I picked it up in person (not shipped) from LFS with oxygen in the bag. The salinity from LFS was about 1.024. I slowly raised it to 1.026 by mixing cup of water from my tank every 15 minutes.

He is eating and occasionally swim down to the substrate and perch on the sand on the back behind rock. Sometime I see him swimming normal horizontally but stay close to the substrate on the back behind rock works.

Tank mates: clowns, yellow tang, melanarus wrasse, royal flasher wrasse, lined dartfish, helfrichi firefish, Molly Miller blenny, yellow watchman goby, flame hawk fish.

Any idea?


Borbonius Anthias swimming downward 1

Bourbonius Anthias swimming downward 2
 
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jaganshi066

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From what I’ve heard is that they live way down in caves and they are used to hanging from upside down. I know the fish store I visited had some and they were upside down literally
 
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canadianeh

canadianeh

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From what I’ve heard is that they live way down in caves and they are used to hanging from upside down. I know the fish store I visited had some and they were upside down literally
Oh really? Not because of bladder problem or maybe it is still adjusting? I was expecting them like wrasses where they are so active and swim around
 

MERKEY

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I do not want to jinx you but we had to take 1 of the 3 we got back due to the same thing.

1 of our 3 was secluded and kept away by 1 of our other 2.

It always slept at the top and swam head down tail up unless scared under a rock or eating. But then right back to the same spot.

From the research we did and questions we asked some reefers we knew, we came to the conclusion that it either had a swim bladder issue or would be picked on to death.

In our situation we were able to return it due to aggressive behavior from the other 2.

This was almost 3 weeks ago and the fish we took back is still alive at the fish store but swims the same.

I'm guessing if they live as long as this one has then they really do just need to adjust.

We just couldn't take the chance seeing how badly it was getting picked on.
 
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canadianeh

canadianeh

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I do not want to jinx you but we had to take 1 of the 3 we got back due to the same thing.

1 of our 3 was secluded and kept away by 1 of our other 2.

It always slept at the top and swam head down tail up unless scared under a rock or eating. But then right back to the same spot.

From the research we did and questions we asked some reefers we knew, we came to the conclusion that it either had a swim bladder issue or would be picked on to death.

In our situation we were able to return it due to aggressive behavior from the other 2.

This was almost 3 weeks ago and the fish we took back is still alive at the fish store but swims the same.

I'm guessing if they live as long as this one has then they really do just need to adjust.

We just couldn't take the chance seeing how badly it was getting picked on.

shoot! I paid quite amount of money for this guy. *sigh* They were all kept in a floating containers at LFS so that they are easy to get instead of chasing them around with net. So I only saw it eating but not swimming. Their policy is no exchange but I am reaching out to them to see if they can make exception since I didn’t see it swimming around in the store.
 

MERKEY

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shoot! I paid quite amount of money for this guy. *sigh* They were all kept in a floating containers at LFS so that they are easy to get instead of chasing them around with net. So I only saw it eating but not swimming. Their policy is no exchange but I am reaching out to them to see if they can make exception since I didn’t see it swimming around in the store.
With the price of these guys I understand the feeling. I bet they eventually chill out but the longer you keep it the better the chance the store won't work with you.

That's the hard part....do you wait fingers crossed or try and work with the store changing it out?

I hope they work with you, fingers crossed ;)
 
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canadianeh

canadianeh

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With the price of these guys I understand the feeling. I bet they eventually chill out but the longer you keep it the better the chance the store won't work with you.

That's the hard part....do you wait fingers crossed or try and work with the store changing it out?

I hope they work with you, fingers crossed ;)
The store said it is their normal swimming behaviour and won’t exchange it. They said it is normal when first added to a tank. They said if it is swim bladder issue it would swim upside down.
 

MERKEY

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The store said it is their normal swimming behaviour and won’t exchange it. They said it is normal when first added to a tank. They said if it is swim bladder issue it would swim upside down.
I wouldn't doubt it....

Hard to take lfs for their word now a days BUT

Ours that we took back is still alive and if it was a bladder issue I'm sure it would have died by now. We go to the store weekly and keep checking on her hahah

If they weren't so expensive we probably would have kept her to see if she eventually worked herself out.

I have a feeling yours will be ok. As long as it's eating and swimming correctly when it is supposed to then I wouldn't be too concerned.
Ours was scared and wouldn't eat and was being bullied so bad it was to watch.
 
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canadianeh

canadianeh

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I wouldn't doubt it....

Hard to take lfs for their word now a days BUT

Ours that we took back is still alive and if it was a bladder issue I'm sure it would have died by now. We go to the store weekly and keep checking on her hahah

If they weren't so expensive we probably would have kept her to see if she eventually worked herself out.

I have a feeling yours will be ok. As long as it's eating and swimming correctly when it is supposed to then I wouldn't be too concerned.
Ours was scared and wouldn't eat and was being bullied so bad it was to watch.
I spent lots of money on this store and it is my go to store for corals and fish. He should know I am a regular. On the same day I bought Helfrichi, Borbonius, and some coral from him.
It would not cost him anything to exchange it really. Maybe he is worried that I "damaged" the fish in a some way and now I want an exchange. I on the other hand am worried that I spent the money to watch the fish swimming downward 98% of the time on the back of the tank which not worth it at all.

I really hope the fish change his swimming behavior sooner or later, and not never. I also learned that I will get the store to free fish that I am interested in from the floating box so I can see it swimming before I buy it from the same store (as long as the Borbonius works out).

Any Anthias experts here that can help to "diagnose" base on the video clips?
 

Jay Hemdal

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The store said it is their normal swimming behaviour and won’t exchange it. They said it is normal when first added to a tank. They said if it is swim bladder issue it would swim upside down.
What I see in the video is that the anthias is slightly positively buoyant. That is super-common with this species and is not normal. Some get better on their own, some require treatment and some die, it all depends on how the issue develops and how severe it is. The common thought is this: these fish are found in deep water and must be decompressed when collected before bringing them to the surface. The best way to do this is to hold the fish in containers and gradually stage them, like a diver does. Trouble is that takes 12+ hours. Collectors are not going to stay out in their little pangas overnight. Their solution is to bleed the fish's air bladder with a needle as they surface with them. Some fish get infections from that, and gas builds up, causing the floatation issue. This is sometimes made worse by then shipping the fish is slightly reduced pressure on the plane.

As long as the fish is eating well, you may want to just observe it, keep the corner it is in slightly darkened to reduce stress. If it gets worse, you might have to move it to a treatment tank and dose with Erythromycin (Maracyn 1) but that doesn't always work.

Jay
 
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canadianeh

canadianeh

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What I see in the video is that the anthias is slightly positively buoyant. That is super-common with this species and is not normal. Some get better on their own, some require treatment and some die, it all depends on how the issue develops and how severe it is. The common thought is this: these fish are found in deep water and must be decompressed when collected before bringing them to the surface. The best way to do this is to hold the fish in containers and gradually stage them, like a diver does. Trouble is that takes 12+ hours. Collectors are not going to stay out in their little pangas overnight. Their solution is to bleed the fish's air bladder with a needle as they surface with them. Some fish get infections from that, and gas builds up, causing the floatation issue. This is sometimes made worse by then shipping the fish is slightly reduced pressure on the plane.

As long as the fish is eating well, you may want to just observe it, keep the corner it is in slightly darkened to reduce stress. If it gets worse, you might have to move it to a treatment tank and dose with Erythromycin (Maracyn 1) but that doesn't always work.

Jay
They all look like that when they got them. See pictures below. Maybe he doesn’t know that they are not supposed to behave like that. What’s your experience with this fish? Are you keeping one? Are you biologist or hobbyist or fish trader? I want to share your comment with my LFS and I would like to know your “credentials” to back me up if the LFSnis insisting that they are normal. :)

440229DB-01EA-46DD-B6F5-B68ECB059F28.png
BA118698-2895-4568-883F-FD4248FDB33E.png
 

Jay Hemdal

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Borbonius do orient to vertical surfaces, I was talking about the fish bobbing head down, that is the sign of a buoyancy problem. The first video shows that behavior, the second does not. You need to determine how much of the time does the fish spend sculling it’s caudal fin to maintain its position, that is the key symptom.
Take a look at the link below my name here to read my disclaimer. Diagnosing ANY fish issue remotely like this is an imperfect process. I can only give you my best estimation as to the problem at hand.
As far as my credentials, can’t say if they are good or not, but you can Google my name for some background.
Jay
 
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canadianeh

canadianeh

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Borbonius do orient to vertical surfaces, I was talking about the fish bobbing head down, that is the sign of a buoyancy problem. The first video shows that behavior, the second does not. You need to determine how much of the time does the fish spend sculling it’s caudal fin to maintain its position, that is the key symptom.
Take a look at the link below my name here to read my disclaimer. Diagnosing ANY fish issue remotely like this is an imperfect process. I can only give you my best estimation as to the problem at hand.
As far as my credentials, can’t say if they are good or not, but you can Google my name for some background.
Jay
Thank you Jay! I think everyone will agree that you have lots of credibility more than many LFS. :) thank you so much for your answer.

For me and many inexperience others, it will be hard to see what you see.

when you say “bobbing down”, did you mean head facing down? Regarding its tail fin, aren’t all fish move their tail to swim down?

the pictures that I got from Facebook of the LFS show that all of the fishes in the holding were moving their tails and swim down just like mine. I guess it is possible that they all have buoyancy problem.
 

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shoot! I paid quite amount of money for this guy. *sigh* They were all kept in a floating containers at LFS so that they are easy to get instead of chasing them around with net. So I only saw it eating but not swimming. Their policy is no exchange but I am reaching out to them to see if they can make exception since I didn’t see it swimming around in the store.
Now you know why they were all kept in separate containers...
 

vetteguy53081

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Quite normal and it eating is good
Anthias have unusual behaviors
I realize you have a hawk fish
Keep an eye on it as my hawk fish in a previous tank wouldn’t leave only the anthias alone
I have a flame hawk now with 6 anthias and all appears okay
 
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canadianeh

canadianeh

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Now you know why they were all kept in separate containers...
I read online that they can be aggressive toward each other. I also agreed that it makes it easier to get it bagged instead of chasing it around and causing stress. With this LFS I noticed that they put more expensive fish in separate containers. My guess is to avoid aggression and nipping each other. Downside is we can’t observe them swimming.
 
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canadianeh

canadianeh

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Quite normal and it eating is good
Anthias have unusual behaviors
I realize you have a hawk fish
Keep an eye on it as my hawk fish in a previous tank wouldn’t leave only the anthias alone
I have a flame hawk now with 6 anthias and all appears okay
You think it is normal? Yes I have flame hawk fish and so far so good. They are about 1 week apart being added to the tank.

her
 
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canadianeh

canadianeh

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Borbonius do orient to vertical surfaces, I was talking about the fish bobbing head down, that is the sign of a buoyancy problem. The first video shows that behavior, the second does not. You need to determine how much of the time does the fish spend sculling it’s caudal fin to maintain its position, that is the key symptom.
Take a look at the link below my name here to read my disclaimer. Diagnosing ANY fish issue remotely like this is an imperfect process. I can only give you my best estimation as to the problem at hand.
As far as my credentials, can’t say if they are good or not, but you can Google my name for some background.
Jay
Here is longer 5 minutes video for you. See if you still think the same about it


Borbonius (Blotched) Anthias swimming downward 3
 
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