Any experiences with BioSun PNS?

[TeapotMaster]

Hello all,

I’ve been using PNS for some time now and believe it is a fantastic product. However, I am hoping to find cheaper alternatives (and hopefully do so without culturing a bag of farts in my apartment).

BioSun, a US-based pond product supplier, sells fairly large and inexpensive bottles of PNS, which they label as for pond use and suitable for all fish. Amazon reviews include some from reefers.

I would love to know if any of y’all have any experience with this product.

https://biosun.us/store-2/p/golden-mist-cup-ht3wm

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Might not live in seawater?

 

[TeapotMaster]

Very much possible. BioSun does not specify which PNS strains they use. I emailed the company to see if they would share this info.

I assume that if strictly freshwater strains were used, using this product would result in a mass die off that would have significant impacts on water chemistry. And assuming online reviews are legitimate, I would expect to see some negative reviews.

But I am not ready to pour a bucket of assumptions into my tank :)

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

Hi, I'm the owner of Hydrospace, so I'll understand if you take what I'm about to say with a grain of salt.

Not BioSun, nor anyone, makes what we make. PNS Deep Cycle (intended mainly for bioremediation) contains an entirely different community of microbes, as it is a consortium that originates from an actual reef environment. The closest thing to compare, perhaps, would be their product vs PNS ProBio (intended mainly as a live feed)--and even that would be like comparing a fresh brick-oven pizza to a Totino's out of the microwave simply because they both contain cheese.

I'd start out by saying that while I don't know what exactly is in their stuff, theirs is mass produced for agricultural and large pond (not necessarily ornamental pond) use. Thus, they likely use the common euryhaline strains, likely Rhodopseudomonas, possibly Rhodobacter. Maybe something else? PNS ProBio is a multispecies culture that contains significant populations of highly viable Rhodopseudomonas, Rhodobacter, and Rhodospirillum. By-the-batch community DNA data is publicly available on our website.

Customer reviews frequently reference BioSun's intense odor, which suggests a rather high sulfide content. (Note that sulfides are produced by Sulfate Reducing Bacteria (SRBs) and are difficult to keep entirely out of these types of cultures; you should expect to have some SRBs in any commercial product, including our own, but the important thing to be aware of is how much is present in one product compared to another.) While I wouldn't exactly suggest using our product as a cologne, it is consistently reported by users as less stinky than other supposedly PNSB-based products (with one exception that we actually tested, which had plenty of food coloring but virtually no PNSB in it to speak of).

The density and purity of our products is unmatched. Period. Even in the horticultural market, where a certain subsector has a keen interest in these microbes, PNS ProBio is considered the highest quality offering. For some context here, the makers of BioSun have reached out to me personally on two separate occasions with offers to pay me to help them improve, scale, and diversify their PNSB process biology (I politely declined).

In all fairness to BioSun, their offering is mass produced for large-scale application (e.g., row crops, lakes), and may (I stress may) be preferable (based on price) for such applications where low density of PNSB, low species diversity of PNSB, relative high density of undesirable contaminants such as SRBs, and high concentrations of undesirable byproducts such as sulfides, are acceptable. I would argue that even the best agricultural grade PNSB-based products out there are not suitable for use in systems containing sensitive animals such as corals, clams, etc. Basically, as the old adage goes, you definitely 'get what you pay for' when it comes to microbials.

On that note, we're going to release a new product as Reefapalooza this month. It's centrifuged (and subsequently frozen), which means even higher concentration of PNSB and less stinky byproducts per fluid ounce. While it will not be cheap compared to offerings such as BioSun, it's formulated and packaged in a manner that is designed for use in sensitive systems such as reef aquaria--not for breaking down livestock wastes or removing pet stains, or whatever. Maybe you'll find it preferable to the fart bags!

Again, I believe you will (and should) read this statement with some healthy skepticism, as I am a direct (or indirect, at least) competitor of that company. But I do hope it helps as you continue to research the matter!

For any additional information you might want, feel free to call us any time at (541) 912-2906.

Happy reefing!

 

[TeapotMaster]

Hi Kenneth,

I appreciate your response. And to be quite honest, I was hoping (and to some extent expecting!) you to weigh in. Hydrospace’s products are not cheap—but they are top notch. More importantly, I can imagine there are way more profitable markets for your products than the reefing industry. The amount of time you spend interacting with reefers and sharing your knowledge more than justifies the price tag for a bottle of red goop (that’s what I call my ProBio, endearingly).

Your explanation makes sense to me, and it is along the lines of what I was imagining (differences in quality, contaminants, etc.). Part of my interest is in determining to what extent the two products compare—for example, many reefers have long and very successfully used Ms. Fields pickling lime as a cheap substitute for more pure sources of Kalkwasser, or de-icing products as magnesium supplements, despite known contaminants existing in both cheaper options. Of course, a comparison is hard to do here since the other company does not post much info about their product. To their defense, that level of granularity may not be essential for their target customers. Hence my search for anecdotal data.

Since I have your attention, two questions: you’ve mentioned that PNS can consume CO2 in the absence of organic carbon. Are you aware of any research or data on the potential use of PNS to raise pH?

Lastly, regarding your home brew kit (the “fart bag” I was referring to ) what is the shelf stability of the batch? Storage recommendations?

(Edit: would you recommend using deep cycle in a cycled system under any circumstances?)

 

[Kenneth Wingerter]

These bacteria prefer organic sources of carbon to CO₂. They do directly utilize CO₂ in certain circumstances, but perhaps more importantly reduce it indirectly by reducing Biochemical Oxygen Demand (BOD). In aquaculture, reducing BOD generally amounts to stabilizing and increasing pH.

High BOD indicates a large amount of decomposing organic matter (like uneaten feed and feces) and high bacterial activity. When you lower BOD, you obviously maintain higher DO levels, but you also reverse the chemical processes that drive pH down.

• Less Carbon Dioxide (CO₂) Production: Bacteria consuming organic matter aerobically release massive amounts of CO₂ through respiration. CO₂ reacts with water to form carbonic acid, which lowers pH. Lowering BOD reduces bacterial respiration, leading to less acid production.
• Reduced Nitrification Pressure: High organic waste leads to high ammonia. Nitrifying bacteria break down this ammonia into nitrate. This process (nitrification) releases hydrogen ions (H⁺), which directly destroys water alkalinity and drops pH. Lowering BOD means less raw waste entering this cycle.
• Prevention of Nighttime pH Crashes: High-BOD systems experience severe diurnal (daily) fluctuations. Oxygenic photosynthesis (i.e., plants, algae, and cyanobacteria) raises pH during the day, but massive aerobic bacterial respiration can crash pH at night. Lowering BOD flattens these volatile spikes and drops.

Unlike ‘typical’ heterotrophic bacteria that release CO₂ and organic acids that lower pH, PNSB possess what we often refer to as a highly versatile "Swiss army knife" metabolism that stabilizes pH through three primary pathways:

• Photoautotrophic CO₂ Consumption: When operating photoautotrophically, PNSB fix dissolved carbon dioxide (CO₂) via the Calvin cycle. Because dissolved CO₂ forms carbonic acid, its biological removal directly minimizes daytime pH drops.
• Organic Acid Assimilation: PNSB utilize light and organic matter photoheterotrophically. They directly consume accumulated volatile fatty acids (such as acetate, lactate, and butyrate) from waste. Removing these acidic compounds raises and stabilizes the system's pH, both day and night.
• Alkalinity-Preserving Denitrification: Traditional nitrifying bacteria consume large amounts of carbonate alkalinity, dropping pH significantly. PNSB perform assimilatory nitrogen removal and denitrification (for growth and energy respectively) under illuminated anaerobic zones. This path does not deplete the water's natural buffering capacity.

I don’t know of anyone using these bacteria for the specific purpose of raising/stabilizing pH (there are cheaper and more effective ways of doing that, of course ), though that is widely acknowledged as being an additional benefit of their use in aquaculture (generally through reduction of BOD).

I’ve seen this mentioned often, but a quick Google search yielded this example right away. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0044848616312935

Shelf life on the kits is 8 months from the day you inoculate your culture medium. Keeping it on light dramatically helps to maintain quality over extended storage.

Yes, I absolutely would recommend using PNS Deep Cycle in a mature system. Reasons include using it as a nutritious, carotenoid-rich live feed (particularly Rhodovulum), fish probiotic (Rhodovulum, Marichromatium, Marinobacter), coral probiotic (Rhodovulum, Prosthecochloris), denitrifier (multiple strains), general organic waste degrader (multiple strains, but particularly Rhodovulum), DMSP degrader (Marinobacter), sulfide remover (Marichromatium, Prosthecochloris), and so on. This product is an intact, naturally occurring community of beneficial microbes that was isolated directly from a wild reef environment; as such, this is an excellent product (in my humble opinion) for conditioning new systems. That said, I think it is at least as valuable when used regularly in mature tanks (as a food/probiotic). https://www.microbiofarm.com/post/the-aquarist-s-guide-to-pns-bacteria-and-their-kin