Anybody Beat acro white bugs long term?

[tokigami]

I have a few acros with the white bugs. I have tried interceptor and Dr gs but non seem to work. I did 4x the interceptor treatment with the normal dose being 1 large dog pill for 400 gallons. And I also tried dr g 1ml per gallon. The bugs always seem to die out and then they come back 30 days later. Maybe they lay eggs and there needs to be multiple doses done over a few weeks like aefw.

I did use the interceptor from canada which is the spectrum version. it has 23 MG milbemycin and 228MG praziquantel which i thin is the same as the normal interceptor... anybody use this one?

weird part is it didn't kill any pods so it would make sense why it didn't kill the white bugs. the Drg did kill the pods though.

Has anybody actually 100% beaten these white bugs over a long period of time or do they keep coming back eventually? I have tried a few doses and for some reason they keep coming back.. and I doomed

 

[Pdash]

I beat them last September, haven't seen them since. I used a whole bottle of G's coral dip in a 80 gallon twice 2 weeks apart. Killed all my pods and all my bristle worms.

 

[tokigami]

I beat them last September, haven't seen them since. I used a whole bottle of G's coral dip in a 80 gallon twice 2 weeks apart. Killed all my pods and all my bristle worms.

wow that is a lot of DRG LOL but maybe that is what it takes to kill them for good. the larger bottle of dr G is 235 ML i think.. did you use a large or small bottle? if you used a large bottle that is around 3ml per gallon you used..... did this have any ill affect on the tank expect killing inverts?

 

[Pdash]

wow that is a lot of DRG LOL but maybe that is what it takes to kill them for good. the larger bottle of dr G is 235 ML i think.. did you use a large or small bottle? if you used a large bottle that is around 3ml per gallon you used..... did this have any ill affect on the tank expect killing inverts?

Pretty sure it was the large bottle. No real negative effects, can't remember all the details, but I did water changes and carbon after.

Before the Dr Gs went in (that's it on top)

Tank last month

 

[Pdash]

I wouldn't go out and buy expensive frags or anything right before you dose, but no, I didnt lose a single coral.

 

[tokigami]

I wouldn't go out and buy expensive frags or anything right before you dose, but no, I didnt lose a single coral.

ok i am currently trying this. how long did it take for the pods to die? im like 2 hours in and nothing is dead yet lol

 

[SeaDweller]

ok i am currently trying this. how long did it take for the pods to die? im like 2 hours in and nothing is dead yet lol

it probably takes time...

 

[Pdash]

ok i am currently trying this. how long did it take for the pods to die? im like 2 hours in and nothing is dead yet lol

At least overnight

 

[ScottB]

I have something going on that folks have suggested are white bugs. STN from the base which is always fatal but affecting only about 10% of my species. I cannot find black bugs or red bugs with lit lense or microscope.

PLEASE somebody conclusively ID what these bugs look like. How are they different from isopods, copepods, cyclopods, amphipods? Plenty of posts about them but no images. Plenty of photos of Red bugs. A few photos of black bugs. PLEASE link me an image of this enigmatic "white bug". Bonus points for a scientific name.

<Rant over>

 

[jessezm]

Scott, this *may* be an answer for you... going to post elsewhere as well. Long story short, some - maybe 10% of my colonies have been suffering long term - usually my older ones. finally, finally was able to get a clean cut of a coral that was affected and after looking under light for a LONG time, saw tiny white bugs moving around. Dipped the coral and after tons of tries, got this sucker on a slide under magnification. I think I'm dealing with white bugs. Plan to do 3 rounds of Interceptor a week apart each. Other thoughts welcome

 

[tymo92]

Scott, this *may* be an answer for you... going to post elsewhere as well. Long story short, some - maybe 10% of my colonies have been suffering long term - usually my older ones. finally, finally was able to get a clean cut of a coral that was affected and after looking under light for a LONG time, saw tiny white bugs moving around. Dipped the coral and after tons of tries, got this sucker on a slide under magnification. I think I'm dealing with white bugs. Plan to do 3 rounds of Interceptor a week apart each. Other thoughts welcome

Looks like a copepod to me, do you see them clustered at the edge of the healthy/receding flesh or all over the dead tissue?

 

[jessezm]

I took the sample from a completely living coral that had retracted polyps and fading color (pink lemonade). I cut the piece of the main colony then observed tiny white bugs moving around on the surface of the coral. then I dipped it in Bayer and found one of the bugs and got it onto a slide. I can't imagine a standard beneficial copepod would have been on a live piece of coral

 

[tymo92]

I took the sample from a completely living coral that had retracted polyps and fading color (pink lemonade). I cut the piece of the main colony then observed tiny white bugs moving around on the surface of the coral. then I dipped it in Bayer and found one of the bugs and got it onto a slide. I can't imagine a standard beneficial copepod would have been on a live piece of coral

Agree if its on the live flesh that doesn't seem like a standard copepod... I've had similar issues with acros and montis but always starting at the base and visible spots of white discoloration creeping up the coral. Nothing visible comes off when dipped in coralRX. My best guess is munnid isopods eating mucus/flesh at night but can't be certain.

 

[jessezm]

For the most part, what I've observed is first a colony will stop extending its polyps all the way, and some will disappear completely. Coral will slowly fade due to what looks like starvation. The color gets less vibrant. Eventually STN will occur - usually at the base or underside but also in the center sometimes. Some colonies are totally unaffected. I have ruled out chemical/water problems with ICP testing. And sometimes a clone of the same colony a few inches away is unaffected. Sometimes, however, a colony - especially a Tenuis, will RTN fairly rapidly. It seems that the smoother skinned coral are more often impacted but die slower.

The bugs are extremely small and very hard to see with the naked eye. only under the microscope does it look like more than a white spec.

 

[ScottB]

Cheers @jessezm I really appreciate the shout and pic. Perhaps you sense my frustration. What level of magnification are these images?

My STN happens at the base so slowly that coralline actually is able to almost keep pace, but the white ring keeps working up until it accelerates and the whole colony/stick goes white. The last part happens really fast like RTN.

Nothing is visible to the eye. Dips (Melafix, KCl, Bayer, Interceptor) yield tons of amphipod shaped critters large and small and all very dead. The only thing I got (a few times) that was suspicious was super small and looks like this at 400X. It is hardly larger than a dinoflagellate, This guy fell off at 16 hours of Interceptor. Not quite dead but close. Familiar?

I've been holding off on full tank Interceptor from simple fear of the unknown and the lack of a a certain ID for white bugs. But this slow death by a thousand cuts is not much fun either. Very species specific. Milli in particular but a few tenuis too.

 

[jessezm]

Wow, that certainly looks similar. I have been googling just now and think it may be something in the phylum Harpacticoida, possibly Alteuthellopsis corallina? There is at least one article that refers to them as white or grayish bugs that can be parasitic to acropora and other SPS and live in and around the polyp opening.

The magnification I was using was 200x I think? I don't know my microscope very well but the eye pieces say WF20X and the lens says 10 / 0.25 and that's what google is indicating...

I am reading lots of different things on whether Bayer or Interceptor kills them. It seemed to me that they were killed by a strong Bayer dip, but I can't be certain.

I was able to get my vet to prescribe the large Interceptor pills (the ones with Prazi) since I have a similar sized dog. I am going to take the plunge tonight and will report back here if it seems to work. I have a multi-tank system with about 350 total gallons of water volume. My plan is to use two large pills, and retreat once per week for three doses. I actually was able to purchase a separate pack of pills online that must have come from over the border since they had a customs slip. I can report back that source if anyone needs it, but they were $86 as opposed to 450 from my vet.

Here's the link to the article I mentioned:

Aquarium Corals: Stony Coral Parasites: Red and Black Bugs: Identification Guide, Preventive Measures, and a Review of Treatment Protocols

This article is but a small tool for use by serious hobbyists in answering many questions.

reefs.com

 

[jessezm]

Here's another pretty clear pic of one from a fresh cut coral frag. This time I just dropped it in cold fresh water and sucked up one of the tiny dots that floated off with a syringe. Again, 200x magnification.

 

[Pdash]

Scott, this *may* be an answer for you... going to post elsewhere as well. Long story short, some - maybe 10% of my colonies have been suffering long term - usually my older ones. finally, finally was able to get a clean cut of a coral that was affected and after looking under light for a LONG time, saw tiny white bugs moving around. Dipped the coral and after tons of tries, got this sucker on a slide under magnification. I think I'm dealing with white bugs. Plan to do 3 rounds of Interceptor a week apart each. Other thoughts welcome

Yup these are the ones. I have a video but you have to really know what you're looking for to see them moving around. I haven't seen them since September 2019 when I treated. Dr. G's whole tank treatment did them in.

 

[jessezm]

First dose of interceptor went in tonight. I'll report back after treatment.

 

[LOVEROCK]

Yup these are the ones. I have a video but you have to really know what you're looking for to see them moving around. I haven't seen them since September 2019 when I treated. Dr. G's whole tank treatment did them in.

can you share the vid here ?