Aquarium disaster

[Zachhll]

Really i have three and have had one for 3 years now. As for setting the temperature what do you mean it doesn't go high enough. You can change the calibration. Is it possible that happened and now yours does not line up with the numbers?

 

[Reefer1978]

Really i have three and have had one for 3 years now. As for setting the temperature what do you mean it doesn't go high enough. You can change the calibration. Is it possible that happened and now yours does not line up with the numbers?

Right out of the box, lets say tank temp is 78. Adjust the heater until it doesn't heat (light doesn't go on), so pretty certain it's close to the tank temp, lets just say between 77-79. Move the calibration until red arrow is right over 78, but no can do, it's at the edge of as far as it can move, and still 6 degrees off of the right temp.

 

[Reefer1978]

But we don't need to try and figure this out, as I got rid of all of them. I am a finnex fan as they work insanely well, and have tons of them, not a single has failed on me yet, and the oldest I have is 3 years old.

 

[Zachhll]

Ah i see what your saying. Yea i never pay that much attention to the dials. Mine weren't off 6 degrees though. I set it with two other digital thermometers for redundancy. most of the ones with the built in dials the most accurate. but you can always compensate. I personally use an apex to control my heater then have its high temp set at 80F. With my apex set to fallback on. This way if for some reason my apex fails my temp will never go above 80F. @nvladik Do you have a controller or just plugging the heaters in? As for heater with a built in thermostat the jager has one of the safest methods of control with no real electronics.

 

[Reefer1978]

Ah i see what your saying. Yea i never pay that much attention to the dials. Mine weren't off 6 degrees though. I set it with two other digital thermometers for redundancy. most of the ones with the built in dials the most accurate. but you can always compensate. I personally use an apex to control my heater then have its high temp set at 80F. With my apex set to fallback on. This way if for some reason my apex fails my temp will never go above 80F. @nvladik Do you have a controller or just plugging the heaters in? As for heater with a built in thermostat the jager has one of the safest methods of control with no real electronics.

I use Apex to control the heating elements, and I get heating elements only without the cheapo controllers.

 

[wkscott]

+1 on eheims being horrible to calibrate. I have never got one to match the number on the dial.

 

[jsker]

I like my Finnex heater that I run off of the Apex controller. link The controllers for the finnex get terrible reviews, but the heaters are rock solid

 

[leepink23]

Are finnex better than won heaters? I ask because I have reward points at marine depot and they don't carry finnex but if finnex is alot better I would just buy it. The won heater got all great reviews on the site.

 

[steallife904]

I had no idea a heater would blow up like that and blow out the glass!

 

[leepink23]

I had no idea a heater would blow up like that and blow out the glass!

I had no clue either that it would do this, I actually was opening the cabinet door when it exploded. Woke my wife up, she ran frantically in the kitchen, kinda funny now, not so funny monday morning.

 

[ReeferRoo]

using 2 finnex 500W TH heaters with my apex on my 150 build. Temp stays withing .1 degrees of 78.

 

[don_chuwish]

I have to disagree, I read lots of posts about Eheim Jagers being great, and ended up buying 3 for my various tanks, 2x 300w, and a 150w. Of all 3, not a single one could adjust to the right temperature on the dial, it just doesn't turn far enough to show the right temperature, so you need a secondary thermometer to set the right. After 2 years, one of the 300s just went bad on me, lost 1/3 of the coral in the frag tank as temp fell into the low 60s for a day before I caught it.

That's why there needs to be redundancies and failsafes. Don't trust JUST the Apex and don't trust JUST the heaters. I'm currently making the mistake of trusting just the Apex to run my two Finnex 300W titanium 'dumb' heaters. So I will add 2 separate Inkbird controllers to go between the Apex and the heaters. I don't need 2 x 300W to heat my 120G tank, just 1 x 300W will do it, but I have two in case one fails or the house gets extra cold for some reason. The very long response from @jason2459 in the BRS heaters thread may seem extreme, but he's not wrong!

 

[jason2459]

@leepink23 very sad to see that happen. Heaters are the devil but we need some way to heat our systems. Some have devised way to create loops with titanium tubing and their hotwater heater. I'm sure those have risks too.

I personally have been using finnex heaters from BRS but they too have had reports of leaking voltage. But you know what, ALL heaters can have that issue. BRB with a copy/paste of what nvladik mentioned about my post above. I could link to it but for as serious as this is for safety I always copy paste this stuff in. It gets repetitive for some that have seen it before but I personally feel it very important.

 

[jason2459]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/w...r-best-we-test-accuracy-and-rank-them.297012/

I hate heaters. They all will fail at some time in some way. I change my heaters out every two years. Any even number year is how I remember it.

Good reads
http://www.beananimal.com/articles/aquarium-heaters-what-you-need-to-know!.aspx

I would always recommend at least two methods of controlling the temp. The temp control on the heater being either the primary or backup or if it doesn't have a built in thermostat two external ones which is my preference. There are many choices out there now.

I've used the Ranco controllers for many many years. Never one issue. I also bought a Reefkeeper light many moons ago too to help be a backup to the ranco plus some other basic functions like ATO. I've since upgraded the reefkeeper many times and also switched to an Apex since then.

I also switched from the Jagers to a more compact titanium heater and much higher wattage. But does not have built in controlls which is better IMO. My options were then to use the Ranco as the primary or the Apex as the primary. Both had some draw backs. The Ranco allows full degree swings in temp before kicking on and off. The Apex has tighter resolution and controll but the tighter you get the more often the heater will kick on and off which is ok for the heater but the outlet relay will eventually wear out which is an expensive outlet. All switches will wear out and usually stuck on and why you want redundant heating controllers.

So, I got another controller. Inkbird gets some good reviews which are cheap. I decided to go with another option with a bayite dual stage prewired controller.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01K...ler+bayite&dpPl=1&dpID=41yjLXWgVqL&ref=plSrch

It supports .1 degree resolution and I really liked it's compact design.

You can see the Rancos and the Bayites I have mounted here

One for each heater, each is plugged into a different power bar, and each power bar is connected to a separate dedicated GFCI/CAFCI 20amp circuit.

I would suggest multiple heaters over a single one. So, my heater itself is on or off thats it. The Bayite is the main controller. It is maintaining temps between 79.2-79.5. The bayites are plugged into the Ranco (which I trust more then any other controller). The Ranco is set to shutdown at 82 degrees. Then the Rancos plugged into the Apex Powerbars. The Apex will shut those down if the temp hits 83 degrees.

I'm pretty well set and protected against a heater/controller stuck on, a heater/controller stuck off by having multiple heaters (800 watts each), and a single breaker/fuse blowing by having two of everything and two separate dedicated circuites.

Some will advocate multiple smaller heaters in case one gets stuck on but if one gets stuck off the redundant heater needs to be able to pick up and heat everything. I'd rather have multiple redundant controllers and a heater if needed to run by itself to be able to heat everything it's supposed too. That's just my opinion and strategy to cover multiple ways a heater could fail. The GFCI to protect me from leaking voltage which has happened and the CAFCI to protect the house from burning down due to a faulty heater which has happened. Then a good surge protector to protect the controllers.


A heater could potentially last many many years. Some, a few days. YMMV

Only problem with a heater failure is they are usually deadly failures. If they are fully submerged they often start leaking and could at best shock you and at worse electrocute you. GFCI is a must. The leaking voltage could cause all sorts of issues with life in the tank.

Sometimes they just burst and at best leak nasty stuff into the water that again life in the tank won't like. And at worse the side of the tank its by cracks and drains out all the water. And at the very worse cause a fire. CAFCI is highly suggested here. GFCI won't be enough at times.

Then most common is they get stuck on which at best if you don't scale down the heater and run multiple of them or don't have redundant heat controllers is your tank runs a little hotter then normal stressing your tank inhabitants. At worse runs your tank a lot hotter then normal killing life in the tank.

And sometimes could get stuck off causing at best the tank to run a little cooler then normal or at worse a lot colder.

All will cause some kind of irritation and possible death or damage to something. All has happened and unfortunately will happen again to someone.


When dealing with equipment electrical safety should be thought of. When dealing with heaters this is multiplied as they are like shoving a toaster into your water with a thin protective layer over it that can be compromised.

My standard copy paste for electrical safety concerns and recommendation for a CAFCI and GFCI circuits.

On CAFCI, GFCI, and Surge Protection to protect your house, yourself, and your equipment.

I like redundancy and as much protection against equipment failures as possible. Things like Heaters and power strips in our hobby have created more havoc then necessary with the occasional fun dip of lights into the tank...


I would also suggest a CAFCI along with GFCI

CAFCI will help protect your house from fire
GFCI will help protect you from electrocution

And a good surge protector will help protect your equipment.

Individual one shown above. Tripplite makes some good ones. Be warned some newer surge protection devices will stop power from flowing all together once it can no longer provide surge protection. This is actually a good thing IMO for many things like computers/tv/etc but NOT a good thing, again IMO, for many other things like refrigerators, freezers, our aquariums, etc. Some will make an audible alarm when exhausted which is nice too.

Plus a whole home. None last forever and will need replaced eventually based on how many surges and intensity of surges they've been hit by. Surges can come from outside your home, not just lightening strikes, and from inside the home.

Eaton Ultra and SquareD hepd80 are a couple good whole home surge protectors.

Plus having more then one circuit with life support spread across them. I have two additional circuits then what's pictured above to my main tank on the first floor with GFCI at the receptacles so its easier to reset them if tripped. Then the two shown in the picture above go to my basement sump with the GFCI at the breaker. Along with being a CAFCI. There are also AFCI breakers but don't protect against as many arc faults as a CAFCI.

And don't get confused by combination AFCI (CAFCI). That doesn't mean it combines GFCI with it. The packaging has to specify GFCI as well to support both CAFCI and GFCI. Sometimes called dual.

Here's some visuals

And CAFCI protects against both of these where AFCI only parallel

In the US the NEC will typically require a class A GFCI protection in places like a bathroom (fishtank) which trips at 6mA. Some places like commercial applications can use class C, D, or E that trip at 20mA.

http://m.csemag.com/index.php?id=9575&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=102229&cHash=89c8746cdc4a7fd8a3cb93f1d51ba57a



So, to sum it up
I highly recommend at minimum two ways to control and more importantly stop the heater from running.
I highly recommend at least two heaters which means double the ways to control the heaters.
I highly recommend each heater on a completely separate electrical circuit
I highly recommend each circuit to be both CAFCI and GFCI and the use of a good surge protector
I recommend each circuit to be dedicated to the tank.



One other thing I'd like to add to the discussion of safety with electricity and having had heaters cause fires or lots of smoke before

I have smoke/fire detectors in every room but also extra ones where there's lots of equipment like my workbench area, above my electric panel annd especially under the tank stand and sump room.

Under tank stand

Above where all my equipment is plugged into and there's another above the sump where the equipment is at.

Paranoid? Maybe. Quick easy safety features? Yep.

https://www.google.com/search?q=aqu...x0PLSAhWI8YMKHWi-AQMQ_AUICSgD&biw=360&bih=560

 

[jason2459]

I had no idea a heater would blow up like that and blow out the glass!

Check out that last link in the thread I posted above...

 

[Scorpius]

You don't need an apex to run a titanium heating element. You just need this. I've been using it for over a year with no issues. http://www.marinedepot.com/Aqua_Log...er_Aquariums-Aqua_Logic-AL1711-FITETC-vi.html

 

[jason2459]

You don't need an apex to run a titanium heating element. You just need this. I've been using it for over a year with no issues. http://www.marinedepot.com/Aqua_Log...er_Aquariums-Aqua_Logic-AL1711-FITETC-vi.html

That would work but it's an expensive ranco which also has the issue of allowing full 1 degree swings. I would suggest having that and a secondary means of heating control like an inkbird. I went with the bayite as it fit my space well. Dual layers of control is important IMO.

 

[Reefer1978]

Jason can you just come over and set it all up???

 

[leepink23]

What about 2 of these plugged in to 2 separate outlets on my apex? Also my aquarium is in my kitchen and is plugged into an outlet on the gfci circuit. If a drop of water touches these outlets it shuts the whole kitchen down. I plug my apex into a ups surge protector and the surge protector into the gfci outlets

 

[Scorpius]

That would work but it's an expensive ranco which also has the issue of allowing full 1 degree swings. I would suggest having that and a secondary means of heating control like an inkbird. I went with the bayite as it fit my space well. Dual layers of control is important IMO.

I agree on the secondary control, but the 1 degree swing hasn't bothered any of my coral.