Are AIO tanks noisy? If so, I'd like to use a Herbie overflow

Swingline77 · Dec 18, 2018

Is there any reason I shouldn't use a Herbie overflow in an AIO? I can't think of any downsides, really. I can have water enter the refugium, for lack of a better term, via a weir, as is the standard practice. At this point, it can enter a box. The box will have two small hoses. They'd only have to be 1/2" or so ID, considering the low volume I'd be running through. Cheap plastic valves such as these go for about $3. Again, if they fail, it's not a big deal. Another great thing is that if it clogs and fails, it would just work as a normal refugium, with the water falling all the way to the bottom.

Is this a good idea, or are there far easier ideas that are commonly used?

Thanks.

James M · Dec 18, 2018

Which AIO are you referring to?

Pntbll687 · Dec 19, 2018

Not sure what you're asking here. To my knowledge AIO don't use any type of "drain" like a Herbie or bean animal.

AIO usually just use a wier that overload to a back chamber, and from there through some sort of chamber or baffles.

ca1ore · Dec 19, 2018

There are no drains in an all-in-one? Weir separates the pump chambers from the display area .... all in the same physical space.

Swingline77 · Dec 19, 2018

I'll explain the AIO as I understand it. I might be mistaken. If I am, please correct me.

An AIO incorporates a barrier in the display tank so that a lower water level can be maintained behind the barrier than in the rest of the tank. Through baffles, areas of different water levels can be maintained, just as in a sump. In order to maintain a lower level than in the display tank, water is pumped OUT of this area, and back into the main display. Water then re-enters the separate area as water flows through a weir.

Since the water behind the barrier is lower than the weir, which is at the same water level as the main tank, water falls from the height of the weir into the chamber. In part of the chamber, I need to have a water depth of 7-8" for my protein skimmer to function. It might be even lower in other areas, though I don't know.

Assuming I'm correct in all this, then in total, the water will fall, either all at once or in stages, from a height of about 24" (the height of the water in the display to 7". This is a drop of 17". I'd assume that this would be very loud.

If I'm right in everything so far, and if there is no other way to reduce noise, then it seems that I can simply rig up an overflow box and Herbie drain on the other side of the barrier. If I do this, then water will fall 17" through a siphoned hose, rather than as a waterfall, thus being silent.

Swingline77 · Dec 19, 2018

Also, I'm building the AIO. It's not ready-made.

JoshH · Dec 19, 2018

I totally understand what you're getting at here. You are building your own AIO and because you are putting a skimmer in the back that can only run in 8 orso inches of water you are concerned about the drop from the wier to the water level in your sump compartments. Yes it will be loud, there are a couple of ways to stop this issue, arguably the best way is doing what you've already suggested and plumb a herbie style drain into the wall separating the AIO compartments and your main Display. You can also just build a simple skimmer stand to raise the skimmer up but this would have the negative effect if making it stick out above your aquarium more. Are you building this aquarium out of glass or acrylic??

Something I'm envisioning similar to this design??

You could also flip the skimmer section I've drawn for the fuge and make the fuge at say ~10" deep this would give you more water volume in your fuge and the ~2" drop from the fuge to the skimmer section won't produce much if any noise

FWIW 99.9% of off the shelf AIOs run the water depth in the rear chambers at about an inch or two below the display, they also generally incorporate nano sized skimmers that are mounted on the wall and can be adjusted as needed regardless of the water depth in the rear.

Typically if you are going to incorporate an overflow, you really should consider just plumbing it to a sump underneath the tank, this means even more water volume, ability to have a much larger display and quite possibly a cleaner look overall

Skydvr · Dec 19, 2018

The skimmer doesn’t need to sit in the same chamber that the weir flows in to.
You can set up a tall baffle for the weir section, then have lower walls for the middle chamber.

Excuse the finger painting.

The two baffles on the right could be reduced to just the panel that goes to the bottom of the tank. The deeper fist chamber is a good location for the heater as the level is deep and stays constant. I’m running an all-in-one right now and the only place to put a standard 100W heater is in a chamber that can run dry if I were on vacation and had the ATO fail.

What are you using for the tank? 24” deep is a lot bigger than most people set up for DIY AIOs.

If you are building yourself, have you considered alternative sump options if a typical stand isn’t possible/practical?
I’ve built a couple pico tanks and placed the sump behind the tank. One was a 6” cube vase with a corner overflow that drained into a sump that was as wide as the vase, but about 2.5-3 times as long. Allowed me to feed quite a bit and double the wate volume. Weekly(ish) 100% 1 gallon water changes. The other I made a coast-to-coast overflow that dumped into a trough that ran water to one side of the sump that sat behind the tank.

I’m working on ideas for building a sump in a bucket and possibly an upflow sandbed filter in a bucket or large diameter PVC pipe.

Swingline77 · Dec 20, 2018

Thanks for the reply. I'd considered the "cascade" approach, but thought that the noise would still be quite a bit. At the point of greatest difference, I would have had 17" of water difference. I realized that considering the amount of force I'd have on the acrylic, I'd need to get all new stock, at least 1/2" thick. Suddenly the sump idea was looking more attractive. I'm writing up my current idea, and will post it tomorrow. Hopefully I'll be able to get by with a 20 gal sump. The tank is 90 gal, by the way.

JoshH · Dec 20, 2018

Should have no issues atall with a 20G sump, really as long as the sumps big enough to hold all your equipment comfortably that's all that matters

Swingline77 · Dec 20, 2018

Skydvr said:
The skimmer doesn’t need to sit in the same chamber that the weir flows in to.
You can set up a tall baffle for the weir section, then have lower walls for the middle chamber.

Excuse the finger painting.

The two baffles on the right could be reduced to just the panel that goes to the bottom of the tank. The deeper fist chamber is a good location for the heater as the level is deep and stays constant. I’m running an all-in-one right now and the only place to put a standard 100W heater is in a chamber that can run dry if I were on vacation and had the ATO fail.

What are you using for the tank? 24” deep is a lot bigger than most people set up for DIY AIOs.

If you are building yourself, have you considered alternative sump options if a typical stand isn’t possible/practical?
I’ve built a couple pico tanks and placed the sump behind the tank. One was a 6” cube vase with a corner overflow that drained into a sump that was as wide as the vase, but about 2.5-3 times as long. Allowed me to feed quite a bit and double the wate volume. Weekly(ish) 100% 1 gallon water changes. The other I made a coast-to-coast overflow that dumped into a trough that ran water to one side of the sump that sat behind the tank.

I’m working on ideas for building a sump in a bucket and possibly an upflow sandbed filter in a bucket or large diameter PVC pipe.