Are these dinos?

[Tuna Melt]

So my tank has exploded in brown algea. It’s a new tank and 2/3 weeks ago I turned my lights on to acclimation mode after a 2.5 month dark phase. I never had a diatom bloom. Last weekend this algea took over the tank in a matter of days. Here’s the thing, I’m running a UV so I was leaning against Dinos however I know some species of Dino’s don’t release into the water column and thus a UV isn’t effective. My snails eats whatever it is. I was under the impressions Dinos kill snails (although I have lost 2 of my ~15 in the last week or so) and so I assume the won’t eat em. Buttttt, I did buy a microscope a few days ago. A cheep $60 one of Amazon that supposedly shows 1000x magnification. This is the most magnified video I could get (doubt its really 1000x). Any thoughts, do I have dinos? Or do I probably have dinos and need to cough up and buy a better microscope. Difficult to match it to anything on google images at this magnification.

 

[Mechano]

Those look like diatoms, not Dinos. Let the tank just cycle thru the ugly stage. Looks normal

 

[JM302]

Not enough magnification IMO. The bubbles are suspect. I see a lot of little bits moving around. A closer view of those could definitively answer the question. I don't see obvious diatoms in that video either. (I'm not a pro, but I have dealt with dinos and have scoped them many many times)

 

[Tuna Melt]

Not enough magnification IMO. The bubbles are suspect. I see a lot of little bits moving around. A closer view of those could definitively answer the question. I don't see obvious diatoms in that video either. (I'm not a pro, but I have dealt with dinos and have scoped them many many times)

Hmm, okay I guess I need to get a better microscope, any recommendations for affordable ones?

 

[JM302]

Hmm, okay I guess I need to get a better microscope, any recommendations for affordable ones?

This is the scope I use:

www.amazon.com/dp/B00AM5XB5O/ref=redir_mobile_desktop?_encoding=UTF8&ref_=ya_aw_od_pi&th=1

I was able to get very clear pictures of diatoms / dinos / etc.

 

[Aaron75]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00GGY85EC?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

Hmm, okay I guess I need to get a better microscope, any recommendations for affordable ones?

I got this one, feel kinda silly using it but it does the job.

 

[ggNoRe]

I've been dealing with dinos off and on for almost 2 years now. Definitely looks like dinos to me. If so turkey basting them into a filter pad at night, adding Microbacter 7, and phytoplankton seems to work well with little to none bad side effects.

In more serious cases rounds of 2-3 day blackouts I found helpful as well.

 

[vetteguy53081]

So my tank has exploded in brown algea. It’s a new tank and 2/3 weeks ago I turned my lights on to acclimation mode after a 2.5 month dark phase. I never had a diatom bloom. Last weekend this algea took over the tank in a matter of days. Here’s the thing, I’m running a UV so I was leaning against Dinos however I know some species of Dino’s don’t release into the water column and thus a UV isn’t effective. My snails eats whatever it is. I was under the impressions Dinos kill snails (although I have lost 2 of my ~15 in the last week or so) and so I assume the won’t eat em. Buttttt, I did buy a microscope a few days ago. A cheep $60 one of Amazon that supposedly shows 1000x magnification. This is the most magnified video I could get (doubt its really 1000x). Any thoughts, do I have dinos? Or do I probably have dinos and need to cough up and buy a better microscope. Difficult to match it to anything on google images at this magnification.

If I took a guess- Cyanobacteria. Cyano blooms typically start when water nutrient concentrations of phosphate, nitrate and other organic compounds are too high. Something to check.
Some of the most common causes include:
- Protein skimmer which fills water with tiny air bubbles. As bubbles form from the reaction chamber, dissolved organic compound molecules stick to them. Foam forms at the surface of the water and is then transferred to a collection cup, where it rests as skimmate. When the protein skimmer does not output the best efficiency or you do not have the suitable protein skimmer to cover the tank, the air bubbles created by the skimmer might be insufficient. And this insufficiency of air bubbles can trigger the cyano to thrive.
- Overstocking / overfeeding, your aquarium with nutrients is often the culprit of a cyano bloom
- Adding live rock that isn’t completely cured which acts like a breeding ground for red slime algae
- If you don’t change your water with enough frequency, you’ll soon have a brightly colored red slime algae bloom. Regular water changes dilute nutrients that feed cyanobacteria and keeps your tank clear
- Using a water source with nitrates or phosphates is like rolling out the welcome mat for cyano. Tap water is an example
- Inadequate water flow, or movement, is a leading cause of cyano blooms. Slow moving water combined with excess dissolved nutrients is a recipe for pervasive red slime algae development

I recommend to reduce white light intensity or even turn them off for 3-5 days. Add liquid bacteria daily for a week during the day at 1.5ml per 10 gallons. Add Hydrogen peroxide at night at 1ml per 10 gallons. Add a pouch of chemipure Elite which will balance phos and nitrate and keep them in check. This in part will work too for dino.

After the 5 days, add a few snails such as cerith, margarita, astrea and nassarius plus 6-8 blue leg hermits to take control.

 

[Tuna Melt]

If I took a guess- Cyanobacteria. Cyano blooms typically start when water nutrient concentrations of phosphate, nitrate and other organic compounds are too high. Something to check.
Some of the most common causes include:
- Protein skimmer which fills water with tiny air bubbles. As bubbles form from the reaction chamber, dissolved organic compound molecules stick to them. Foam forms at the surface of the water and is then transferred to a collection cup, where it rests as skimmate. When the protein skimmer does not output the best efficiency or you do not have the suitable protein skimmer to cover the tank, the air bubbles created by the skimmer might be insufficient. And this insufficiency of air bubbles can trigger the cyano to thrive.
- Overstocking / overfeeding, your aquarium with nutrients is often the culprit of a cyano bloom
- Adding live rock that isn’t completely cured which acts like a breeding ground for red slime algae
- If you don’t change your water with enough frequency, you’ll soon have a brightly colored red slime algae bloom. Regular water changes dilute nutrients that feed cyanobacteria and keeps your tank clear
- Using a water source with nitrates or phosphates is like rolling out the welcome mat for cyano. Tap water is an example
- Inadequate water flow, or movement, is a leading cause of cyano blooms. Slow moving water combined with excess dissolved nutrients is a recipe for pervasive red slime algae development

I recommend to reduce white light intensity or even turn them off for 3-5 days. Add liquid bacteria daily for a week during the day at 1.5ml per 10 gallons. Add Hydrogen peroxide at night at 1ml per 10 gallons. Add a pouch of chemipure Elite which will balance phos and nitrate and keep them in check. This in part will work too for dino.

After the 5 days, add a few snails such as cerith, margarita, astrea and nassarius plus 6-8 blue leg hermits to take control.

Thanks a lot for the detailed response! I’ve been struggling with the inverse problem (keeping nutrients up). Which is a potential catalyst for Dino’s as I understand. My nitrates have always been detectable, for maybe 1-2 days (after the outbreak) my phosphates hit 0. I got them back up to .08 through feeding and adding FUEL. I have a roller mat, algea scrubber, UV, and skimmer all packed into this little Redsea Reefer 170. The one odd thing here, whatever it is, appeared when I installed my UV. Now that might just be coincidence, but my instinct is the UV is somehow related. It was just a strong correlation, UV goes in, boom two days later brown everywhere. I’m running my UV to administer a dose of ~280UWS/CM to combat ich (rough first two months of reefing lol, fingers crossed it gets easier ). So maybe the UV took out the natural predator of whatever it is? I have pretty good flow with two RedSea gyres running at 40% on random, but I do have a ton of natural, white light in my apt with floor to cealing, south-facing window (in the northern hemisphere).

I’ve read some techniques to diagnose Dino’s without a microscope. If I don’t get stuck at the office late tonight I’m going to try some of those, if they are inconclusive I’ll grab a better microscope.

I’ll update everyone once I diagnose the issue here!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thanks a lot for the detailed response! I’ve been struggling with the inverse problem (keeping nutrients up). Which is a potential catalyst for Dino’s as I understand. My nitrates have always been detectable, for maybe 1-2 days (after the outbreak) my phosphates hit 0. I got them back up to .08 through feeding and adding FUEL. I have a roller mat, algea scrubber, UV, and skimmer all packed into this little Redsea Reefer 170. The one odd thing here, whatever it is, appeared when I installed my UV. Now that might just be coincidence, but my instinct is the UV is somehow related. It was just a strong correlation, UV goes in, boom two days later brown everywhere. I’m running my UV to administer a dose of ~280UWS/CM to combat ich (rough first two months of reefing lol, fingers crossed it gets easier ). So maybe the UV took out the natural predator of whatever it is? I have pretty good flow with two RedSea gyres running at 40% on random, but I do have a ton of natural, white light in my apt with floor to cealing, south-facing window (in the northern hemisphere).

I’ve read some techniques to diagnose Dino’s without a microscope. If I don’t get stuck at the office late tonight I’m going to try some of those, if they are inconclusive I’ll grab a better microscope.

I’ll update everyone once I diagnose the issue here!

Its not so much that low nutrients are a catalyst but when we see zero readings, automatically we assume this is the cause but by the time you see zero numbers, its because the dino has consumed the po4 and no3 and are multiplying and in turn many dose no3 and po4 to bring numbers up not realizing they are feeding these flagellates even more.

 

[Tuna Melt]

Well… I got home and it has absolutely exploded… I would say it almost doubled in 24 hours… Is this growth rate possible for Dinos? I have a better microscope that should arrive tomorrow courtesy of Mr Bezos. Assuming it is Dinos I have a few questions, I have a bottle of MicrobactorClean laying around, should I get going with that while I wait for MB7? I also have some AF life source on hand. Should I start dumping that in to get competing organisms in there? Given Dinos are photosynthetic should I turn off my algae scrubber (also will help maintain my nutrients although they are not bottomed out). My plan is to start dosing MB7, start turkey basting and scraping glass to get them in the water column so my roller mat and UV can filter some out and decrease my lights. I’m toying with the idea of (I) blackout period, (II) H2O2, (III) silicates…

 

[Scritch]

I would suck all that up, brush off the rocks, do a little water change, and see what happens tomorrow.

 

[Tuna Melt]

I would suck all that up, brush off the rocks, do a little water change, and see what happens tomorrow.

Hmm, what should I be looking for tomorrow?

 

[JM302]

You might want to review this thread - it's LONG - but you'll see all different experiences with dinos and how people treated them. I've dealt with both coolia and ostreopsis, both of which enter the water column at night and UV takes them out when you have an appropriate exposure time / flow rate and wattage. Usually you set something up temporarily in the tank. Feed pump in the tank toward the sand bed and the return back to the tank on the other side. Meanwhile there are other dinos that seem to go away when you just leave them alone.

Personally I never found MB7 / Clean / etc to do anything. It certainly didn't help with my dino outbreaks. I can tell you that pods chow down on ostreopsis. I had some pop up in my fuge recently and the pods just went to town on it.

I'd recommend:

1: Get a positive ID of what you're dealing with. If in fact dinos, find out what type and find out how they are best treated.
2: Formulate a treatment plan and stick to it. It takes TIME.
3: Try to maintain nutrients in the tank.
4: Be prepared for a cyano or hair algae outbreak afterwards. Once you get through those, I found that the tank finally found balance.
5: Don't use a 'hammer' (chemiclean / vibrant / etc) if you do run into a massive algae or cyano outbreak. That'll just pave the way for the dinos to come back.

And yes... dinos can blow up that quickly.