Are water changes over rated?

[BryanM]

No, but I rarely do them

 

[Pridedcloth3]

I look at it as water changes are for those that don't have the time or ability to maintain a system that doesn't get them. Kinda like the guy that doesn't take his car to the shop because he is the mechanic versus the guy that'll only make it worse if he tried.

 

[nickscorals]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: don’t take care of your corals, take care of your water.
Water changes are the single best maintenance tasks you can do to skyrocket the quality of your reef. Most people are just too lazy to do them. If you have a mega tank, change 10% per week religiously. I change 33% weekly in my pico.

 

[VintageReefer]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: don’t take care of your corals, take care of your water.
Water changes are the single best maintenance tasks you can do to skyrocket the quality of your reef. Most people are just too lazy to do them. If you have a mega tank, change 10% per week religiously. I change 33% weekly in my pico.

This is a very close minded and opinionated statement - it’s not really false. But it’s very narrow minded and shows inexperience in alternate methods, and is rude to those that do things differently.

What if…this was better, and easier?

 

[Z Burn's Reefing]

IMO, water changes are like feeding you corals Nectar from the Gods...just trust me on this.

Or don't trust me...many ways to do this hobby...but if you want 1-inch frags to become colonies in 12 months, change your water...and if growth is looking slow, change more water. You'll thank me later. Happy Reefing!

 

[anglefishlover]

Oof what a controversial topic. Water changes overrated isnt water changes are useless. There are reefers out there who can do just fine for a long time on a tank with minimal or no water changes. But at the same time its pretty clear by now that it increases your success rate. Dilution is the solution to pollution, may take months or years for pollutants to become toxic but they will if u dont dilute. We all have a spectrum of skill, water changes equal the playing field. Done properly with a mix that is similar to your parameters? I have a hard time seeing the argument. Is the argument that you dont want to spent 30 minutes and $25 on salt every couple weeks on your hobby and a reef that you may have invested over $10k. Also, I feel routine water changes and maintenance get you more intune with your tank, if your the kinda person willing to do routine water changes, your probably going to be more intune with whats going on and end up with a really stable system in the end.

 

[Seascapes]

I've noticed when I don't do water changes and don't try to chase numbers, my SPS are coloring up and not stn'ing. That's weird. I only dose for CA and Alk changes, which I haven't adjusted for months. I may add MG once a week. I had bio pellets on the system and my nitrates went to zero. So I took that off. Only problem I'm having is algae on my glass and I believe that's from phosphates. I guess I should test, but everything looks healthy. I've been adding bacteria. I belive that's increasing the green algae. I also upgraded my lights. That may be causing the green stuff. My tank does better. When I leave it alone.

 

[Lasse]

Late to the party.

I do not have WC as a regular maintenance tool - have not have it for more than 6 years. However my skimmer removes maybe 1/2 a liter / week and my use of Triton Core / rise the salinity - I need to take away around 6 L a week in order to maintenance my salinity. I have a 310 L system. It means a daily change of around 0.3 %. However I had done some larger WC during the years caused of too high K concentration. I change my salt to OCEAMO´s Corrector which means that I can use it as an K corrector (this salt is liquid and you ad K separately- The reason why I started with no regular WC was stability reasons. And I understand that I need to dose trace independent of WC or not WC. IMO - there is no dry salt that can guaranty right amount of man trace element. They are typical some grams/ton - just image how to mix this evenly. I had most success with the semi natural salts (based on evaporated sea water) - the others was just fast going roller coaster according to trace´s (I use ICP even before the change with no regular WC ) I decided a couple of years ago to use The OCEAMO corrector as my salt - not cheap but I do not use so much.

Its impossible to argue to all post here - but here i some that I want to comment

Agreed… find a tank of the month that doesn’t change water……………..

December 2024 as one example

Assuming I can get peroxide to work using a controlled drip system

Take a look at the oxidator

Well you of all people SHOULD be vocal about not doing water changes: Anyone with a 10 year old reef should be spreading the news… I’m listening

Is it enough with a 8 years system

I don't think anyone who is saying they don't do water changes is not performing them when/if there is an emergency

Exactly - its a tool that I use if necessary - but not as a routine.

Do you mean if his ICP comes back with "water change required", lol, that sort of emergency?

Sometimes - but I never react on a single test if I can´t see problems in the aquarium. I have had a tendency of a slow raise in tin levels the last years - if it come in high next test - I may do a serie of WC during some weeks

But it doesn't seem to be s effective as you assert with this paper only achieving 50% reduction at the optimal dosing.

You mean - its as effective as a 50% WC?

Water changes DO NOT re-balance trace elements.

Exactly my point

Sincerely Lasse

 

[GARRIGA]

To rehash my sticking points. Two remaining factors that support water changes for me are remnants of coral warfare and this new found knowledge that DOC some how persist and therefore detrimental.

Coral warfare cannot at the moment be tested and/or verified that it persists or actually detrimental based on my research and understanding therefore I'm ignoring this possible issue. Hopefully OH solves it although if it does I won't know it did because I'll likely never know I had it or ways to verify it was fixed.

News to me DOC persist and lack the time to review the literature provided and had been of the mindset that nature solved it through mechanics such as decomposition or utilization by an organism. Hopefully at some point there are Cliff Notes although word has it sponges might solve it.

Unfortunately this hobby as with many others riddled with anecdotal (therefore must be factual science) evidence to support practices that have worked. For example, I solved a recent run with Dinos after throwing everything but the kitchen sink at it. Ironically, that's where my tank was going had I not solved it. I could anecdotally claim all acts needed to solve it because that's what worked for me and quote countless literature and experience by others to support sone if not all I did yet other's have had similar success without possibly doing everything or exactly as I did. Fact is I have no clue which exact strain I had and in the end just glad my tank didn't end up in the kitchen sink although currently in the garage waiting to live again.

Perhaps the debate should not be whether one should or shouldn't and evolve to how can we make it work. Considering all I've learned since the 70s and the tools available then perhaps this approach more realistic then relying on anecdotal evidence where best achieved nothing more than self gratification that done worked yet no clue why.

Perhaps attack and verify the science vs pitch forks and tents on some imaginary line :)

 

[CHSUB]

Unfortunately this hobby as with many others riddled with anecdotal (therefore must be factual science) evidence to support practices that have worked. For example, I solved a recent run with Dinos after throwing everything but the kitchen sink at it. Ironically, that's where my tank was going had I not solved it

This is an excellent point and my exact thoughts. Specifically with regards to dinoflagellate, “I tested no3 and they ‘bottomed out’ and I got dinos. I dosed no3 and they went away”. When in reality no3 was below hobby test kit resolution and actually is in abundance; dosing no3 did nothing except make no3 visible on a hobby test kit.

With regards to WC, I went several years around 2000 without WC and had success, however algae was difficult to control. Started WC with advice from a LFS and J. sprung and had better success and less algae. Imo, WC is a great tool and makes reef keeping easier.

 

[GARRIGA]

With regards to WC, I went several years around 2000 without WC and had success, however algae was difficult to control. Started WC with advice from a LFS and J. sprung and had better success and less algae. Imo, WC is a great tool and makes reef keeping easier.

Without knowing what exactly the WC was correcting then could just be coincidental. For example, might have been replacing certain trace elements although only of the portion changed yet still maintained overall minimum requirements. Perhaps had ICP existed back then and you'd know exactly what needed replenishing then success would have been similar or better.

Today we can re-balance all the elements with ICP testing. Regardless if still performing a WC therefore success likely improved because of ICP and not continued WC.

 

[CHSUB]

Without knowing what exactly the WC was correcting then could just be coincidental. For example, might have been replacing certain trace elements although only of the portion changed yet still maintained overall minimum requirements. Perhaps had ICP existed back then and you'd know exactly what needed replenishing then success would have been similar or better.

Today we can re-balance all the elements with ICP testing. Regardless if still performing a WC therefore success likely improved because of ICP and not continued WC.

My thinking is trace elements are secondary. I dosed many trace elements, blindly however, back then. You being from S Florida, maybe you remember NatuReef and his trace element dosing advice and products, he was in Davie.
I use WC as a cleaning tool, manually removing “bad” stuff and giving the reef a storm. Generally speaking and maybe coincidentally my tank looks better after a WC. I feel more connected with the reef with a WC, better for me and the inhabitants; imo.

 

[GARRIGA]

I use WC as a cleaning tool, manually removing “bad” stuff and giving the reef a storm. Generally speaking and maybe coincidentally my tank looks better after a WC. I feel more connected with the reef with a WC, better for me and the inhabitants; imo.

That's the point I'm trying to isolate. What exactly is a WC removing? Might be other means to solve it. For example, no longer do we do a WC to remove ammonia yet at one point that was the only way. Yet those keeping Betta in a bowl might still although some have migrated to using FW plants to solve that or prolong that change.

Just using trace as an example because most have no clue what exactly that WC is solving and perhaps why they stick to it yet with gained knowledge then this might become obsolete as it did for solving ammonia.

WC is either adding that depleted or removing that introduced. Isolate both and perhaps changing water isn't the absolute solution. Based on success some have had. Seems they have solved it although may not exactly know how that was.

 

[CHSUB]

What exactly is a WC removing?

Besides the unknown, I know I’m removing algae and detritus; maybe not the most effective way with a WC but it works. I also occasionally use a canister filter, because I prefer a super clean look and feed corals directly a lot.
I’m not disagreeing that WC may not be needed, but I prefer its use.

With regards to betta fish, haha, I must use WC to remove sulfur and smell it when I do as it can cause root rot on my red and black mangroves. That is a 10 gal pot.

 

[CHSUB]

Not picking on Paul, but this is not going “to work” for me, would need to manually remove; imo, a toothbrush and WC would be best way.

 

[VintageReefer]

if you want to do no wc you have to compensate in other ways. I’m skimmerless and don’t do wc. That said I’ve been keeping tanks 24 years, and after about 12 years I figured out how to do it. The last 10 - 11 have been no wc on any of my systems

No pest algae on these rocks or sand. Growth and color is excellent

Key is in addition to alk + ca + mg, you need alternate ways to handle nitrates, phosphates, trace, doc, and sand cleaning so it doesn’t become dirty over time

 

[GARRIGA]

Besides the unknown, I know I’m removing algae and detritus; maybe not the most effective way with a WC but it works. I also occasionally use a canister filter, because I prefer a super clean look and feed corals directly a lot.
I’m not disagreeing that WC may not be needed, but I prefer its use.

With regards to betta fish, haha, I must use WC to remove sulfur and smell it when I do as it can cause root rot on my red and black mangroves. That is a 10 gal pot.

That canister filter ran 24/7 can collect and decompose detritus and carbon dosing or running a Fuge can minimize algae although in the end CUC best suited for that task. WC wasn't needed for that.

Don't think that's a healthy pot if you're smelling sulfur.

This is what I'm describing and similar to hydroponics for growing both fish and plants for food.

 

[GARRIGA]

if you want to do no wc you have to compensate in other ways. I’m skimmerless and don’t do wc. That said I’ve been keeping tanks 24 years, and after about 12 years I figured out how to do it. The last 10 - 11 have been no wc on any of my systems

No pest algae on these rocks or sand. Growth and color is excellent

Key is in addition to alk + ca + mg, you need alternate ways to handle nitrates, phosphates, trace, doc, and sand cleaning so it doesn’t become dirty over time

How do you handle DOC?

 

[Lasse]

but this is not going “to work” for me, would need to manually remove; imo, a toothbrush and WC would be best way.

Its nothing else than a natural cleaning phase and food for other critters in the aquarium - look how clean the rocks are around the nest of the fish - its his/hers garden and everything that come to close (including CUC) will be chased away. @Paul B correct me if I´m wrong.

This is a part of a natural system. I have Aiptasia in my aquarium. Its grows where my copper band can´t reach them. Suddenly - there was a huge colony of Aiptasia around some acropora and at a place there the copper band have eaten them before. I understand nana until I saw my very smal okinawae goby chasing away all fish from his favourite spot - the Aiptasia took advantage of the little activist. Now have he/she moved and the Aiptasia is gone too - probably into the stomach of my Copper band.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[VintageReefer]

How do you handle DOC?

Cryptic zone in full darkness filled with various forms of life, but the doc is handled by the numerous live sponge colonies that grow in the darkness