Are we too dependent on Controllers ???

[Finatik]

First let me say that I have nothing against controllers. The intent of this post is just to spark some friendly thought and discussion. I think that controllers are AMAZING pieces of equipment that do all sorts of things for us, and store all sorts of data about our aquariums. BUT... is it "wise" to be so dependent upon them ? I hear people say things like "It's the BRAIN of my aquarium" and "It takes care of EVERYTHING for me so that I don't have to".
The purpose of the controller is to monitor everything and alert us to even the slightest thing that gets off kilter - BUT- suppose the controller itself fails ? Or suppose a probe, or a heater stops working and for some reason the controller doesn't pick that up, and we think everything is A-OK until we start seeing evidence inside the tank that it's not ? (like bleeched or dying coral, dead fish, etc.)
What are we left with if the contoller fails us ? And they can... I work in IT, and I see computers and other electronic devices fail everyday. There are no guarantees. So it just begs the question as to whether or not we should be so dependent on them.

 

[Finatik]

I am in the middle of a 120 gallon build right now, but several years ago, I had a 180 gallon, and of course back then, there were no controllers or gadgets to do all of the things controllers do for us today. I had to monitor my own temperature, manually test for PH, ALK, Calcium, ect..., manually dose if parameters warranted it, and manually top off any evaporated water by pouring water in from 5 gallon jugs. It was just part of what you did if you had a reef aquarium. And for the most part, everything turned out OK even though we didn't have all of the fancy electronic gadgets we have hooked up to our tanks today. So with the cost of say a Neptune Apex at $800+ just to start, and not including any of the add-ons you will need to properly monitor everything, I'm just trying to figure out Is it really worth it ?

 

[jason2459]

I'm dependent on my controller to make my life and my family's life easier. But yes, all things will fail.

Make sure you have redundancy, backups, and a plan for failure. I could easily switch everything over to manual.

I have dual heating controllers outside of the Apex. My dosing are via peristaltic pumps on timers that can be done with any timer. Failsafe switches are backed up with failsafe switches and pressure switches separate from my apex via piggy back plugs (avast and tsunami at1). Extra pumps, two or more of every thing. Batery backups, generators Etc etc etc. I even have my Seneye as a backup monitor and alert to my Apex now.

Plan for failure. But don't worry something will still fail and ruin your day. You learn and plan around it. Has happened to me many times over the years.

Multiple probes checking against themselves.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ph-probe-and-this-is-one-way-to-know-you-need-to-calibrate.285739/

Seneye external from my main controller monitoring
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/s...-for-the-established-tank-i-think-not.258297/

Dual "brains" ready to go at all times. I backup and restore and switch brains periodically.

Multiple heater controllers and I have EB8s presetup and ready to replace the eb832s. Same with all my equipment like return and skimmer pumps. Even bulbs ready to go. Multiple dedicated electrical 20amp GFCI/CAFCI circuits with life support spread across them.

 

[Js.Aqua.Project]

I will tell you that I really enjoy having my Apex and all of the things it does for me. For example, checking I remotely to make sure I remembered to turn my skimmer on after doing a WC, the remote access is really handy.

However, I take everything it tells me with a grain of salt. I still will spot check my pH against the probe, have a thermometer in the tank, and still check my salinity with a refractometer. As much as I like it for controlling my lights and putting my tank into feed mode automatically, I don't "trust" it blindly with all of the data it feeds me.

I believe that our controllers can be great for daily reference but that we still need to do our own due diligence as well.

Mine made life easier as it reduced the amount of time I spent doing everything manually but it was simply a reduction, not elimination.

 

[HolisticBear]

"bad data is worse than no data" is common to many endeavors. People also have an unfortunate tendency to get addicted to data and become singularly focused on the data itself rather than the objective the data is supporting.

It's a common problem nowadays.

In my opinion, controllers are just enabling this common human tendency in our hobby. The solution isn't to throw out the data and control tools, just to remind people that data is often wrong, be aware that bad data can be worse than no info at all, and our controllers are supporting the tank (so look at the tank) not just your computer.

Didn't mean for that to sound so much like a lecture, but the "over dependent" on controllers is just yet another manifestation of being enamored with data/tools over the actual job at hand.

Controllers are a tool and the tools will only get more reliable in time.

 

[Macdaddynick1]

First let me say that I have nothing against controllers. The intent of this post is just to spark some friendly thought and discussion. I think that controllers are AMAZING pieces of equipment that do all sorts of things for us, and store all sorts of data about our aquariums. BUT... is it "wise" to be so dependent upon them ? I hear people say things like "It's the BRAIN of my aquarium" and "It takes care of EVERYTHING for me so that I don't have to".
The purpose of the controller is to monitor everything and alert us to even the slightest thing that gets off kilter - BUT- suppose the controller itself fails ? Or suppose a probe, or a heater stops working and for some reason the controller doesn't pick that up, and we think everything is A-OK until we start seeing evidence inside the tank that it's not ? (like bleeched or dying coral, dead fish, etc.)
What are we left with if the contoller fails us ? And they can... I work in IT, and I see computers and other electronic devices fail everyday. There are no guarantees. So it just begs the question as to whether or not we should be so dependent on them.

What this needs is a calculation of a human error compared to the computer. My apex failed a few times on me it definitely sucks. And the only critical component of my apex is ATO and Kalkwasser. If one of those fails, then that's a huge problem. However, I have failed way more times than my apex. 1) forgot to adjust the heater, 2) turned off the return pump while my skimmer was running, dumped all of the skimmate into the sump, 3) turned on the kalkwasser and left the house to buy more coral (fusion saved my life) etc. etc. . There are also things that go wrong without you knowing 1) ph dropped too much, temperature went up to high, chiller didn't turn on, calcium reactor controller failed and you're no longer dosing , etc etc. Regardless of how careful you are things just happen and you might not get to it in time. Be it a long term power outrage an apex failure, anemone walking into the powerhead or a fish disease , there is always a risk of losing things. As I see it , controllers may fail and it is a one risk point, but they can also save you from a million of different scenarios.

P.S. we are too dependent on the lights, chillers, skimmers, dosers, glass tanks, ro units our power plants, and all of those have a chance to fail.

 

[Finatik]

All great points...

 

[rossco]

Honestly, as stated above, controllers make our life way easier. We still need to get to know our individual systems and corals so visually we can see trouble starting. Check the CO2 pressure, alkalinity, CA, etc on a regular basis.

I figure that if (insert device here) fails and the controller fails to pick it up, the device would have failed anyway regardless of the controller.

If the controller fails, the channel defaults where you set it to do in that circumstance, either on or off.

If the whole thing fails, that's what pump battery backup is for. Be sure to test the battery periodically too. A friend had a power outage and the battery in his backup had went bad. Lots of death. I checked my battery the same day, gone too. Luckily the power didn't fail in my part of town.

If all that fails, most likely while we are on vacation, its either time for a re-boot or a break. It sure sucks having a meltdown but getting your tank into that sweet spot again is gratifying.

 

[cracker]

I feel doing your self is more gratifying.

 

[d2mini]

I run one tank with and one without.
Dependent? No.
Would I want to give mine up? No.

 

[40B Knasty]

Personally I enjoy my basics. HOB filter HOB skimmer. Can't see either. Easy clean. Clean the collection cup everyday when I wake up, rinse the sponge when doing water changes weekly, add 4 cups of water at the 3rd or 4th day for top off, and a Digital thermometer to read stuck to the HOB skimmer. When it runs like a machine there is no failure. If something happens that is out of my control. It would most likely affect the person the same way with over control. A battery backup for circulation and heater is all I feel is necessary to have.

 

[ps2cho]

I've backed off having EVERYTHING on the Apex. I now run an Apex Jr on my frag tank and its plenty.

In reality you don't need to know pH most of the time...you don't need every outlet programmed...

I find it actually overcomplicates and overworries abotu everything. The basic heater and alk/ca dosing is the important part of the controller.

 

[Salty1962]

I don't believe that everyone truly and utterly rely on their controllers for system operations. I think they are but another tool in our arsenal to make things more consistent and reliable to system operations. I rely on my controller to take care of things that reduce the amount of potential points of failure, timers, etc. They also give you the capability to be notified if something goes out of the programmed parameters and remote configurability. I'm constantly checking my system through my controller to make sure everything is going well and value the ability to change things remotely if they are not. As with all electrical systems that are exposed to corrosive salt, they can fail but that's where our husbandry practices take over. No system is perfect but controllers take some of the load off our shoulders. JME

 

[ThunderGoose]

I've been hearing about people hacking into wi-fi systems using household appliances that lack good security. What's the security like on these wi-fi enabled controllers?

I'm not an IT person but I am paranoid about anyone getting access to my computer. I'm much too dependent on it for my job.

 

[Michael Joye]

I think we should be dependent on controllers for the functions we give them just as much as we depend on lights to feed our coral, heaters to keep them warm, and electricity power plants to give us the power to run these things. It is hard playing god to these water creatures but this what we signed up when filled up that glass box for the first time.

 

[Marc.The.Shark]

I would have a harder time keeping a tank without my controller. I'm out of town multiple days a week for work and my Apex automates enuf of my maintenance to keep my parameters stable. The alarms/notifications are also a lifeline so I can check on things remotely if something looks off. My wife is good about taking a look at things for me if there is an issue and I can usually walk her through some things, but without the controller it would be very difficult for me. They have their place and I think with the money I have invested in my setup, it's just another layer of protection.

 

[Michael Joye]

I've been hearing about people hacking into wi-fi systems using household appliances that lack good security. What's the security like on these wi-fi enabled controllers?

I'm not an IT person but I am paranoid about anyone getting access to my computer. I'm much too dependent on it for my job.

I am it person that deals with securing networks. Most of the security for the wi-fi enable devices is done on your network level. Have a strong network, no one can get in. Change you network password over time and make it hard to guess(make it super long or use symbols)

 

[FishGuyBri]

I assume the failure will happen with or without the controller, but it's my responsibility to know what's going on in my tank. I've brought a living, breathing ecosystem into my home and while I don't have the ability to be here all the time, the controller is added safety. I still doublecheck all the things my controller is supposed to do. I have failsafes in place. My goal from the controller is added redundancy and safety, nothing more. I am the brain of my tank, the controller is extra eyes and extra hands that I delegate to ;-) great post!!

 

[andrew james]

Beside redundency built into my system i have a replacement part for everything especially the apex brain, return pump and heaters. I have battery backups, secondary pumps and heaters on seperate circuits and a gas powered genny. things that cannot wait days or even hours to be replaced have a backup. When you reach the place where the inhabitants of you tank are not only very valuelable money wise but also like little members of your family. You figure it out. It doesnt happen all at once but sometimes you have to pass on that new expensive frag to buy a return pump tha just sits under your bed for years waiting for the day when it will save you.

 

[reeferfoxx]

I used to sort of give the controller idea a cold shoulder. My early years of reefing and getting to know my tank and equipment lead me to believe that spending $250+ dollars on a glorified timer/temp notifier wasn't necessary. Now that I'm comfortable with my daily on/off operation for food, testing, flow adjustments, and of course weekly wc, I find myself wanting one more and more. For instance, feeding requires me to shut off return pump which then triggers the ATO alarm followed by my skimmer burping. I now would like for these things to be included on a 10 minute timer. Sometimes I turn my ATO off and completely forget about it while off to work. Same goes for the skimmer. The return pump has its own 10 minute timer and so I dont worry about it. To make a long story short, it would be convenient to have a controller, to monitor equipment, set timers, receive notifications and to be able to show it all off from across the country.