Are You Prepared If Your Controller Fails?

dangles

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A bit of a long story, but bear with me....

I'm a new reefer. I started my tank in December/January. So far it's doing great! Fish-only right now (check out my build thread) but I plan to start introducing corals at some point soon!

Anyway that's not what this is about.

As the title implies, I had a controller failure last week. I had set up a Neptune Apex Jr with an EB832, a couple of DOS pumps, an ATK and a few other peripherals. I work a pretty unconventional schedule that keeps me away from home for big chunks of time, so remote monitoring and control were a MUST in my reefing philosophy. Like I'm sure most new reefers do (and probably many experienced ones too!) I found myself CONSTANTLY opening up my Fusion app and looking through it. I was also constantly rearranging all the tiles until the layout made sense to me. I would check my temp and pH every few hours (sometimes much much more). I was also diving into the programming side of things and setting up all kinds of programs for how I wanted my system to run and what I wanted notified of. I also had all kinds of reminder notifications set up (change the filter, check the dKH, check the calcium/mag/NO3/PO4, etc, and on and on and on). I think I had maybe 30 reminders between checking parameters and a variety of other short, medium and longterm maintenance items.

My system was working wonderfully for me, but I decided I needed to clean up all the cords and cables that had started to get out of control in my cabinet. So I disconnected EVERYTHING, laid it all out, labeled ALL THE THINGS, made a DIY controller board, and put it all back together even neater than before.

Everything turned back on, but the Jr wouldn't connect to the Fusion UI. What's worse, the programming within the modules started to act screwy. My controller and all the modules/peripherals were effectively bricked.

If you're not familiar with the Neptune world, the Apex A3 Jr is wifi-only. No ethernet port. For some reason, my controller wasn't connecting to my wifi. I double checked my other IoT devices at home and they were all working fine. I tried a soft reset. Still just the orange light (no connection). I found that if I hit the "refresh" button on the error screen repeatedly, I would sometimes reconnect for about 10 seconds, then drop the connection again. And because it wasn't connecting to Fusion, I couldn't check the issues with all the modules that were not working right anymore. I also lost ALL my reminders.

So I called Neptune customer support. They were very helpful and knowledgable. He was able to (through my computer) connect directly to the unit and do a bunch of wizardry to try to diagnose the issue. He thought he got it fixed, but when we got off the phone, it immediately stopped working again! I called back and the engineer working with me said he would have to bring in some other engineers for some help. After a little while he confessed that I was the first customer he had dealt with to stump 3 engineers at the same time. They didn't have any idea what the issue could be. He arranged for me to send my unit back in, and get a replacement.

That's where I am now. Waiting for my new A3 base unit (I upgraded from the Jr so I could have a freaking ethernet port!).

But all that brings me to my point... I was WAY too reliant on my smart aquarium gadgets! I was practically crippled without them, and I didn't have a backup plan in place. All this happened the night before my work shift, meaning I would be without remote monitoring and control for 24 hours.

Thankfully, I still had the wifi-controllable smart power strips I started with before I became overly reliant on my Apex. I disconnected everything from the Apex Jr and EB832, and went back to the "Stone Age" just using my wifi power strip. Fortunately this was an easy task because all my plugs and cords and such were labeled, organized, and easily accessed. I just unplugged my return pump, power head, lights, heaters, etc and plugged them into the wifi power strip. Quick and relatively painless thanks to my organization! No harm came to my tank inhabitants when this was all going down. But it reinforced a couple of REALLY important points:

If you use a controller, you should REALLY have a backup plan that DOESN'T involve any of it in case for some reason it craps out on you. Also, when things stop working (or just simply need upgraded), it pays DIVIDENDS to have your cord management and label game ON POINT.

Table-top all the different "oh sh ! t scenarios" and know how you'll deal with each of the major ones at least.

In my line of work we often have PACE plans. Primary, Alternate, Contingency, Emergency. Know what you'll do when something fails, and have backup plans of backup plans!

Controllers are fantastic tools, but be sure you know what to do if you're suddenly without that tool. I'm glad it happened to me early on, before the stakes got REALLY high.
 
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doubleshot00

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Happened last night fir me. Added a brand new leak detector and my eb832 an hour later went haywire. Kept turning off my ato on and off every second to 10 seconds. Weird. I deleted the programing and we are back in business but man the Apex is very frustrating. I haven’t changed it back to the old one yet but very frustrating.
 
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dangles

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I love my kasa controlled reef.
Wifi powerstrips have proved reliable so far with the employment of battery backup systems for my wifi and tank.

No module or sensor headaches.

I love the Kasa stuff too! But one of the reasons I went to the EB832 was because I had a couple of instances where the schedule I had set up in the Kasa app failed lol.

The moral of all these stories is to anticipate what could go wrong, and have a plan in place BEFORE it happens. Proactive, not reactive :D
 

Saltyreef

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I love the Kasa stuff too! But one of the reasons I went to the EB832 was because I had a couple of instances where the schedule I had set up in the Kasa app failed lol.

The moral of all these stories is to anticipate what could go wrong, and have a plan in place BEFORE it happens. Proactive, not reactive :D
i havent had those issues with mine yet but i heard about the issues with power loss during an on event and that it stays in the same state until an off event is triggered but that sounds like a simple firmware upgrade or just programming redundant off events.

Mainly for dosing schedules.

And its really easy to mess things up if you dont pay attention.
 

apb03

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I run Kasa too, I don't see much of a reason to change. A while back I set it up so that every hour it will automatically turn my devices on in case I forget to turn it back on. Forgot all about it...then one day I did a major tank maintenance and unhooked the drain.

30minutes later...FLOOD.
 
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dangles

dangles

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I run Kasa too, I don't see much of a reason to change. A while back I set it up so that every hour it will automatically turn my devices on in case I forget to turn it back on. Forgot all about it...then one day I did a major tank maintenance and unhooked the drain.

30minutes later...FLOOD.

That's a smart way to do it!
 

Saltyreef

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I run Kasa too, I don't see much of a reason to change. A while back I set it up so that every hour it will automatically turn my devices on in case I forget to turn it back on. Forgot all about it...then one day I did a major tank maintenance and unhooked the drain.

30minutes later...FLOOD.
OOPS!
:confounded-face:
 

Saltyreef

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I use kasa for my son’s chameleon. No way I would use it for something important on a reef tank.
CLM too....
water feels GIF
 

KrisReef

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A bit of a long story, but bear with me....

I'm a new reefer. I started my tank in December/January. So far it's doing great! Fish-only right now (check out my build thread) but I plan to start introducing corals at some point soon!

Anyway that's not what this is about.

As the title implies, I had a controller failure last week. I had set up a Neptune Apex Jr with an EB832, a couple of DOS pumps, an ATK and a few other peripherals. I work a pretty unconventional schedule that keeps me away from home for big chunks of time, so remote monitoring and control were a MUST in my reefing philosophy. Like I'm sure most new reefers do (and probably many experienced ones too!) I found myself CONSTANTLY opening up my Fusion app and looking through it. I was also constantly rearranging all the tiles until the layout made sense to me. I would check my temp and pH every few hours (sometimes much much more). I was also diving into the programming side of things and setting up all kinds of programs for how I wanted my system to run and what I wanted notified of. I also had all kinds of reminder notifications set up (change the filter, check the dKH, check the calcium/mag/NO3/PO4, etc, and on and on and on). I think I had maybe 30 reminders between checking parameters and a variety of other short, medium and longterm maintenance items.

My system was working wonderfully for me, but I decided I needed to clean up all the cords and cables that had started to get out of control in my cabinet. So I disconnected EVERYTHING, laid it all out, labeled ALL THE THINGS, made a DIY controller board, and put it all back together even neater than before.

Everything turned back on, but the Jr wouldn't connect to the Fusion UI. What's worse, the programming within the modules started to act screwy. My controller and all the modules/peripherals were effectively bricked.

If you're not familiar with the Neptune world, the Apex A3 Jr is wifi-only. No ethernet port. For some reason, my controller wasn't connecting to my wifi. I double checked my other IoT devices at home and they were all working fine. I tried a soft reset. Still just the orange light (no connection). I found that if I hit the "refresh" button on the error screen repeatedly, I would sometimes reconnect for about 10 seconds, then drop the connection again. And because it wasn't connecting to Fusion, I couldn't check the issues with all the modules that were not working right anymore. I also lost ALL my reminders.

So I called Neptune customer support. They were very helpful and knowledgable. He was able to (through my computer) connect directly to the unit and do a bunch of wizardry to try to diagnose the issue. He thought he got it fixed, but when we got off the phone, it immediately stopped working again! I called back and the engineer working with me said he would have to bring in some other engineers for some help. After a little while he confessed that I was the first customer he had dealt with to stump 3 engineers at the same time. They didn't have any idea what the issue could be. He arranged for me to send my unit back in, and get a replacement.

That's where I am now. Waiting for my new A3 base unit (I upgraded from the Jr so I could have a freaking ethernet port!).

But all that brings me to my point... I was WAY too reliant on my smart aquarium gadgets! I was practically crippled without them, and I didn't have a backup plan in place. All this happened the night before my work shift, meaning I would be without remote monitoring and control for 24 hours.

Thankfully, I still had the wifi-controllable smart power strips I started with before I became overly reliant on my Apex. I disconnected everything from the Apex Jr and EB832, and went back to the "Stone Age" just using my wifi power strip. Fortunately this was an easy task because all my plugs and cords and such were labeled, organized, and easily accessed. I just unplugged my return pump, power head, lights, heaters, etc and plugged them into the wifi power strip. Quick and relatively painless thanks to my organization! No harm came to my tank inhabitants when this was all going down. But it reinforced a couple of REALLY important points:

If you use a controller, you should REALLY have a backup plan that DOESN'T involve any of it in case for some reason it craps out on you. Also, when things stop working (or just simply need upgraded), it pays DIVIDENDS to have your cord management and label game ON POINT.

Table-top all the different "oh sh ! t scenarios" and know how you'll deal with each of the major ones at least.

In my line of work we often have PACE plans. Primary, Alternate, Contingency, Emergency. Know what you'll do when something fails, and have backup plans of backup plans!

Controllers are fantastic tools, but be sure you know what to do if you're suddenly without that tool. I'm glad it happened to me early on, before the stakes got REALLY high.
I think about this everytime I get on a jumbo jet and hope the pilots are prepared to fly by the stick if there's a storm in the cloud. Problem with today is that now a lot of machines are controlling other machines and they won't bother to listen to anyone who don't speak AI.


Never Mind Reaction GIF by MOODMAN
Driving Ford GIF by FIA World Rally Championship
Things are getting out of control locally.
 

n2585722

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I use the Hydros system and have 12 controllers. There are 10 in a collective. So if I loose one of them the others will continue as best they can. I would loose any inputs and outputs on the specific controller that fails but I also have a battery backup for my MP10's. My controllers also have battery backup but that will mot help with anything that runs on AC power directly. I had a power outage for 4 hours the other day when I was not at home. I did get a screenshot of the collective with the 10 controllers while it was running on battery backup. I also have a UPS on my router and cable modem. The things in orange are off but they are AC outlets. The tiles in red here are out of bounds and alert is sent for those. There are others but they were on different pages of the controller. Needless to say I was getting alerts every 30 minutes until power was restored on my phone and iPad. The flow pumps ran at a low flow rate the entire time. So I had plenty of time to react.

IMG_9123.png
 
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mike550

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I’m probably one of the least sophisticated users with a controller. Mines basically a glorified on/off system with some logic. All open loop stuff. So if I lose the brain I guess I just plug everything into power strips.

But I would definitely replace it. But maybe a GHL or Hydros :)
 

Kfactor

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i have 2 controllers i dont have nothing hooked up to them that would fail and make my tank not work
 

TokenReefer

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A bit of a long story, but bear with me....

I'm a new reefer. I started my tank in December/January. So far it's doing great! Fish-only right now (check out my build thread) but I plan to start introducing corals at some point soon!

Anyway that's not what this is about.

As the title implies, I had a controller failure last week. I had set up a Neptune Apex Jr with an EB832, a couple of DOS pumps, an ATK and a few other peripherals. I work a pretty unconventional schedule that keeps me away from home for big chunks of time, so remote monitoring and control were a MUST in my reefing philosophy. Like I'm sure most new reefers do (and probably many experienced ones too!) I found myself CONSTANTLY opening up my Fusion app and looking through it. I was also constantly rearranging all the tiles until the layout made sense to me. I would check my temp and pH every few hours (sometimes much much more). I was also diving into the programming side of things and setting up all kinds of programs for how I wanted my system to run and what I wanted notified of. I also had all kinds of reminder notifications set up (change the filter, check the dKH, check the calcium/mag/NO3/PO4, etc, and on and on and on). I think I had maybe 30 reminders between checking parameters and a variety of other short, medium and longterm maintenance items.

My system was working wonderfully for me, but I decided I needed to clean up all the cords and cables that had started to get out of control in my cabinet. So I disconnected EVERYTHING, laid it all out, labeled ALL THE THINGS, made a DIY controller board, and put it all back together even neater than before.

Everything turned back on, but the Jr wouldn't connect to the Fusion UI. What's worse, the programming within the modules started to act screwy. My controller and all the modules/peripherals were effectively bricked.

If you're not familiar with the Neptune world, the Apex A3 Jr is wifi-only. No ethernet port. For some reason, my controller wasn't connecting to my wifi. I double checked my other IoT devices at home and they were all working fine. I tried a soft reset. Still just the orange light (no connection). I found that if I hit the "refresh" button on the error screen repeatedly, I would sometimes reconnect for about 10 seconds, then drop the connection again. And because it wasn't connecting to Fusion, I couldn't check the issues with all the modules that were not working right anymore. I also lost ALL my reminders.

So I called Neptune customer support. They were very helpful and knowledgable. He was able to (through my computer) connect directly to the unit and do a bunch of wizardry to try to diagnose the issue. He thought he got it fixed, but when we got off the phone, it immediately stopped working again! I called back and the engineer working with me said he would have to bring in some other engineers for some help. After a little while he confessed that I was the first customer he had dealt with to stump 3 engineers at the same time. They didn't have any idea what the issue could be. He arranged for me to send my unit back in, and get a replacement.

That's where I am now. Waiting for my new A3 base unit (I upgraded from the Jr so I could have a freaking ethernet port!).

But all that brings me to my point... I was WAY too reliant on my smart aquarium gadgets! I was practically crippled without them, and I didn't have a backup plan in place. All this happened the night before my work shift, meaning I would be without remote monitoring and control for 24 hours.

Thankfully, I still had the wifi-controllable smart power strips I started with before I became overly reliant on my Apex. I disconnected everything from the Apex Jr and EB832, and went back to the "Stone Age" just using my wifi power strip. Fortunately this was an easy task because all my plugs and cords and such were labeled, organized, and easily accessed. I just unplugged my return pump, power head, lights, heaters, etc and plugged them into the wifi power strip. Quick and relatively painless thanks to my organization! No harm came to my tank inhabitants when this was all going down. But it reinforced a couple of REALLY important points:

If you use a controller, you should REALLY have a backup plan that DOESN'T involve any of it in case for some reason it craps out on you. Also, when things stop working (or just simply need upgraded), it pays DIVIDENDS to have your cord management and label game ON POINT.

Table-top all the different "oh sh ! t scenarios" and know how you'll deal with each of the major ones at least.

In my line of work we often have PACE plans. Primary, Alternate, Contingency, Emergency. Know what you'll do when something fails, and have backup plans of backup plans!

Controllers are fantastic tools, but be sure you know what to do if you're suddenly without that tool. I'm glad it happened to me early on, before the stakes got REALLY high.
Any idea what they thought they fixed?

This is not necessarily related but thought I'd share in case it helps others. Recently got an Apex Jr and took the time to manually add all my written logged data. A week later I added an EB4 and re-arranged all my wiring and the Apex came up blue light and wouldn't connect to Fusion. I was pretty p.o.'ed. Contacted Neptune. In the meantime I figured I'd play with it. Set it up as a new Apex Jr but the graphs (ph, tmp) weren't showing, just orange. Set the time to manual and rebooted. Graphs started working. Set it back to auto and they remained working. Started adding all my data AGAIN! Pia... Took a pause and went to the Apex list screen. My old Apex was in there, I just can't connect to it. Noticed the little dropdown on the gear. Hit it and then Adopt data on my new Apex and was able to select the old Apex and boom all my data came in.

Good luck op; hope they get ya goin again.
 
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dangles

dangles

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Any idea what they thought they fixed?

This is not necessarily related but thought I'd share in case it helps others. Recently got an Apex Jr and took the time to manually add all my written logged data. A week later I added an EB4 and re-arranged all my wiring and the Apex came up blue light and wouldn't connect to Fusion. I was pretty p.o.'ed. Contacted Neptune. In the meantime I figured I'd play with it. Set it up as a new Apex Jr but the graphs (ph, tmp) weren't showing, just orange. Set the time to manual and rebooted. Graphs started working. Set it back to auto and they remained working. Started adding all my data AGAIN! Pia... Took a pause and went to the Apex list screen. My old Apex was in there, I just can't connect to it. Noticed the little dropdown on the gear. Hit it and then Adopt data on my new Apex and was able to select the old Apex and boom all my data came in.

Good luck op; hope they get ya goin again.

No idea. They said somehow it was communicating but not communicating. I wasn’t sure what they meant.

They did say they'll update me on what they find when they get a chance to dig into it.
 

Waboss

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With the A3 Jr. having the "old school" display can be very helpful. My A3 jr. had hardware issues and we couldn't maintain a connection. I had an older display though, was able to hook it up and at least have some level of access to troubleshoot with support. Granted, I ended up cross shipping with them to get a replacement, but it was nice to at least be able to "get into it".

With that being said, I've got a backup "brain" now and 2 Kasa power strips for that "just in case" moment.
 

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