So each day on every forum on the web there are questions about bacteria and what they require, don't require, tolerate and will not tolerate. And 99% of the answers are unmeasured, they're recirculated info for decades regarding marine cycle/filtration aerobes and they're not measured using today's highly accurate devices like seneye and mindstream
most of our data is colorimetric interpretations, where partial readings and questions of accuracy are 100% valid tank to tank.
here are some things we have never measured in reef threads, yet hundreds of people have the gear to measure it/post data/ and either write articles from that info or have others write them
has been measured and posted before:
-completely live rock fallow testing is out there. You can find posts where live rock was taken offline, put into a vat in a garage to cure with circulation and topoff but no feed, and immediately able to pass oxidation testing after 3 years. 36 mos is longest post Ive seen, from DJ City. Nano-reef.com poster dandelion has a 2 year test mark of dry rocks brought to full cycle, the fallowed for 2 yrs, then passing oxidation testing over nite like a real cycled reef.
-Dr. Reef's bottle bac thread has proven the viability of bottle bac in several ways. One notable find from his thread was that most strains are depositing onto surfaces within a day or two when dosed, and the system can endure a full water change and still pass oxidation, which proves deposition and not just items floating in suspension. He found out which strains cycle the fastest, and the averages for the other groups. I have yet to see a bottle bac sold that wasn't a viable brand, we have fish-in cycling to confirm this across brand names as well.
-We have seen some limited testing where bottle bac dosed into a system and then kept mostly capped off/not open topped/wasn't able to oxidize a small ammonia sample after a year in wait. we don't know if they emerged/became undormant after a few days, or if ever, but initial testing showed not much ability if the bac don't get an initial kick of feed from the aquarist (in a closed off system)
-the timeframe of 30 days is a rough measure for marine bacteria cycling. Any cycling chart you pull from google, regardless of origin or country, has about 30 days as the operating timeframe. Its known that just about any combination of living materials and feed arranged in saltwater + 30 days time arrives at a tank able to handle an initial bioload. There has been longstanding data to support that all cycles are done by day 30
-Dr Reef's bottle bac thread has testing for high level ammonia during a cycle 8 ppm, not affecting the bottle bac or final cycle dates. There is a rolling claim that ammonia spikes kill/stall cycles. how high must we go to actually attain that?
-AquaBiomics' DNA testing has broken ground on bacterial classes and clades/ expression in reef tanks in ways we hadn't seen before.
has not been measured and posted before:
******readings taken digitally by seneye or mindstream, ALL of our current data is API and it would be amazing to get clear low level answers to even basic cycling questions
-the unassisted cycle for marine tanks. Fill up an aquarium with water, décor (all dry) and let it sit there X number of days until it self-cycles (can oxidize a reasonable amount of ammonia in 24 hours when tested)<----whether that can even occur is hotly debated among reefers and sages. *this undeniably works in fw systems, where inoculants are found all over nature and home; but if you're landlocked, Kansas for example, are marine inoculants to be found? are they dormant anywhere, does any conversion or shifting occur where somehow bacteria shift and take on work in marine environments?
Can nitrite levels (high) stall a cycle?-stated online by sages, not ever measured nor documented for laypersons. make a thread showing how nitrite spikes stalled a cycle in an aquarium with rocks and sand. Show ammonia control being affected by typical cycling nitrites, not using api but seneye.
-how long bottle bac dosed into an aquarium and fed with ammonia a few times can go without re-feeding, a variation of fallow testing. ****currently the biggest guess going on in reefing, 100% of advisors state they must be fed or they’ll starve
-Linked cycling: can you link a totally dry marine system to a full running one, wait X number of days, unlink, and the new system fully passes cycling testing for ammonia? if so, what does that say about water and suspended bacteria frequency ********edit/mythbusted see work thread below.
-does caribsea sand show up live? does pre rinsing it remove the bac, and make it fail the same test that originally shows it comes alive (able to oxidize ammonia) in the bag? <----------10,000 reefers claim it will kill it. none of us know, its literally never been tested.
this is an example of a post where people have guesses, but nobody measures. we need some measurement work done in our hobby
www.reef2reef.com
most of our data is colorimetric interpretations, where partial readings and questions of accuracy are 100% valid tank to tank.
here are some things we have never measured in reef threads, yet hundreds of people have the gear to measure it/post data/ and either write articles from that info or have others write them
has been measured and posted before:
-completely live rock fallow testing is out there. You can find posts where live rock was taken offline, put into a vat in a garage to cure with circulation and topoff but no feed, and immediately able to pass oxidation testing after 3 years. 36 mos is longest post Ive seen, from DJ City. Nano-reef.com poster dandelion has a 2 year test mark of dry rocks brought to full cycle, the fallowed for 2 yrs, then passing oxidation testing over nite like a real cycled reef.
-Dr. Reef's bottle bac thread has proven the viability of bottle bac in several ways. One notable find from his thread was that most strains are depositing onto surfaces within a day or two when dosed, and the system can endure a full water change and still pass oxidation, which proves deposition and not just items floating in suspension. He found out which strains cycle the fastest, and the averages for the other groups. I have yet to see a bottle bac sold that wasn't a viable brand, we have fish-in cycling to confirm this across brand names as well.
-We have seen some limited testing where bottle bac dosed into a system and then kept mostly capped off/not open topped/wasn't able to oxidize a small ammonia sample after a year in wait. we don't know if they emerged/became undormant after a few days, or if ever, but initial testing showed not much ability if the bac don't get an initial kick of feed from the aquarist (in a closed off system)
-the timeframe of 30 days is a rough measure for marine bacteria cycling. Any cycling chart you pull from google, regardless of origin or country, has about 30 days as the operating timeframe. Its known that just about any combination of living materials and feed arranged in saltwater + 30 days time arrives at a tank able to handle an initial bioload. There has been longstanding data to support that all cycles are done by day 30
-Dr Reef's bottle bac thread has testing for high level ammonia during a cycle 8 ppm, not affecting the bottle bac or final cycle dates. There is a rolling claim that ammonia spikes kill/stall cycles. how high must we go to actually attain that?
-AquaBiomics' DNA testing has broken ground on bacterial classes and clades/ expression in reef tanks in ways we hadn't seen before.
has not been measured and posted before:
******readings taken digitally by seneye or mindstream, ALL of our current data is API and it would be amazing to get clear low level answers to even basic cycling questions
-the unassisted cycle for marine tanks. Fill up an aquarium with water, décor (all dry) and let it sit there X number of days until it self-cycles (can oxidize a reasonable amount of ammonia in 24 hours when tested)<----whether that can even occur is hotly debated among reefers and sages. *this undeniably works in fw systems, where inoculants are found all over nature and home; but if you're landlocked, Kansas for example, are marine inoculants to be found? are they dormant anywhere, does any conversion or shifting occur where somehow bacteria shift and take on work in marine environments?
Can nitrite levels (high) stall a cycle?-stated online by sages, not ever measured nor documented for laypersons. make a thread showing how nitrite spikes stalled a cycle in an aquarium with rocks and sand. Show ammonia control being affected by typical cycling nitrites, not using api but seneye.
-how long bottle bac dosed into an aquarium and fed with ammonia a few times can go without re-feeding, a variation of fallow testing. ****currently the biggest guess going on in reefing, 100% of advisors state they must be fed or they’ll starve
-Linked cycling: can you link a totally dry marine system to a full running one, wait X number of days, unlink, and the new system fully passes cycling testing for ammonia? if so, what does that say about water and suspended bacteria frequency ********edit/mythbusted see work thread below.
-does caribsea sand show up live? does pre rinsing it remove the bac, and make it fail the same test that originally shows it comes alive (able to oxidize ammonia) in the bag? <----------10,000 reefers claim it will kill it. none of us know, its literally never been tested.
this is an example of a post where people have guesses, but nobody measures. we need some measurement work done in our hobby
Will the bacteria in live sand die if there is no ammonia source?
I know with Dr. Tim's One and Only, the bacteria will die if they don't have food and that's why you either need to dose ammonia or add a fish. But what about live sand?
www.reef2reef.com
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lets add this one-how much peroxide does it take, and in what kind of application method, to render a section of surface area no longer able to oxidize ammonia
