Artificial nutrients Vs Artificial food

sixty_reefer

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Wile reading through the forum I have noticed that many on here are oppose to add artificial nutrients to a reef aquarium and will always prefer a artificial food supplement to increase nutrients for example.
My question is mainly why? Why would someone prefer using a unreliable method to deal with a problem instead of a more reliable and clean way to deal with the problem in hand.

What really confuses me is that most that will say no to artificial nutrient sources will in most cases advocate for things like live phytoplankton that is actually unknowingly for many a source of artificial nutrients.

I’m just looking to understand both sides of the discussion as I don’t see a problem with any of the methods although I’m just wondering if the problem is just that most nutrients aren’t well understood
 

homer1475

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I personally advocate for precise dosing of whats missing.

Adding more food for the nutrient boost can lead to other issues, as well as adding things you may not need.

Direct dosing of whats missing(IE PO4, or NO3) is a cleaner more precise way. IMO

Honestly, I actually advocate for more fish.

More fish = more food = more fish poop/pee = more ammonia which coral prefer over residual nutrient levels we measure for. I would actually advocate for ammonia dosing if I wasn't to scared to do it, so a more "natural" way of adding more fish is basically the same thing.
 

homer1475

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I would also add....

In these forums there are quite a few noobie reefers, and they share their experiences, or just regurgitate what they read, or seen in some youtube video with no real world experience. With the sheer amount of noobs(for lack of a better term) around here, us older more knowledgeable reefers often get drowned out. Hence why you often see what your referring to.
 
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sixty_reefer

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I personally advocate for precise dosing of whats missing.

Adding more food for the nutrient boost can lead to other issues, as well as adding things you may not need.

Direct dosing of whats missing(IE PO4, or NO3) is a cleaner more precise way. IMO

Honestly, I actually advocate for more fish.

More fish = more food = more fish poop/pee = more ammonia which coral prefer over residual nutrient levels we measure for. I would actually advocate for ammonia dosing if I wasn't to scared to do it, so a more "natural" way of adding more fish is basically the same thing.
I agree that adding more random food can bring more complicated issues, specially if the mechanical filtration is not set correctly do export unwanted organics.
I understand your point with ammonia, same would go for nitrogen, I wouldn’t never recommend this to anyone that would have unwanted algaes in they’re system and would probably recommend using a later stage like calcium nitrate. They would be a good way to increase nitrates in a more mature reef full of coral that would benefit from this nutrient.
 
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sixty_reefer

sixty_reefer

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I would also add....

In these forums there are quite a few noobie reefers, and they share their experiences, or just regurgitate what they read, or seen in some youtube video with no real world experience. With the sheer amount of noobs(for lack of a better term) around here, us older more knowledgeable reefers often get drowned out. Hence why you often see what your referring to.
Could it be due to lack of nutrition information out there? For example I see many literature on how good amino acids and vitamins are although not many on the adverse effects of overdosing this nutrients. They are really good at growing macro algaes and unwanted algaes if not used correctly or if used in a young system in excess.
 

homer1475

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I don't think it's a lack of information per se, but a lack of GOOD information on how these things change the "food webs"(to use a term from another thread of yours) in our tanks, and how an overdose can adversely effect the tank.

Honestly that can be said of a lot of the products we use in this hobby. Most of what we know is from anecdotal experiences of others.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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IMO, some folks thoughts on reef nutrition mirrors the thoughts they have on what is natural and what is “chemical” as if those were opposite things.

There are a variety of these sorts of issues in reef husbandry.
 
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sixty_reefer

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I don't think it's a lack of information per se, but a lack of GOOD information on how these things change the "food webs"(to use a term from another thread of yours) in our tanks, and how an overdose can adversely effect the tank.

Honestly that can be said of a lot of the products we use in this hobby. Most of what we know is from anecdotal experiences of others.
I don't think it's a lack of information per se, but a lack of GOOD information on how these things change the "food webs"(to use a term from another thread of yours) in our tanks, and how an overdose can adversely effect the tank.

Honestly that can be said of a lot of the products we use in this hobby. Most of what we know is from anecdotal experiences of others.
“Food webs” is from ReefGeeser article
 

KStatefan

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Disclaimer i am a Noob

I used "unnatural" chemicals to get my nitrate and phosphate not zero. I used this method that is I add x amount it will increase the level in my tank y amount almost instantly.
 
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sixty_reefer

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Disclaimer i am a Noob

I used "unnatural" chemicals to get my nitrate and phosphate not zero. I used this method that is I add x amount it will increase the level in my tank y amount almost instantly.
You may realise one day that it isn’t as unnatural as you may think right now, it’s a very efficient way to deal with a problem.
 

ReefGeezer

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It’s a good article, I can’t take credit for it.
Thanks for the credit @sixty_reefer. I am one who likes to add nutrients with food input... including phytoplankton where appropriate. However, I won't clam it to be "natural". I see no problem with supplementing chemical solutions when the system can't process enough food input to yield adequate inorganic nutrients. I feed my high bioload tank very heavily and even add a supplement that contains amino acids, lipids, carbohydrates, and etc.. I still have to add a nitrogen compound to keep nitrates detectible... sometimes sodium nitrate... sometimes ammonium chloride.

I do think @homer1475 hit the nail on the head. Even my hobbyist level, somewhat limited understanding of food webs and nutrient processing pathways has helped me manage my tank better. I think if newer reefers learned to think in a more holistic manner about nutrients, they would understand that food input and chemical solutions are both valuable. And like everything else in an aquarium, neither are particularly "natural".
 
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sixty_reefer

sixty_reefer

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Thanks for the credit @sixty_reefer. I am one who likes to add nutrients with food input... including phytoplankton where appropriate. However, I won't clam it to be "natural". I see no problem with supplementing chemical solutions when the system can't process enough food input to yield adequate inorganic nutrients. I feed my high bioload tank very heavily and even add a supplement that contains amino acids, lipids, carbohydrates, and etc.. I still have to add a nitrogen compound to keep nitrates detectible... sometimes sodium nitrate... sometimes ammonium chloride.

I do think @homer1475 hit the nail on the head. Even my hobbyist level, somewhat limited understanding of food webs and nutrient processing pathways has helped me manage my tank better. I think if newer reefers learned to think in a more holistic manner about nutrients, they would understand that food input and chemical solutions are both valuable. And like everything else in an aquarium, neither are particularly "natural".
It’s interesting that we can use similar products to achieve different results, I use nitro plus (mix of nitrogen sources) and amino plus (amino acids, vitamins and carbohydrates) to encourage macro algae growth in my display.
 

ReefGeezer

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It’s interesting that we can use similar products to achieve different results, I use nitro plus (mix of nitrogen sources) and amino plus (amino acids, vitamins and carbohydrates) to encourage macro algae growth in my display.
True. One can definitely take more than one road to get to the a destination.
 

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