Asking for help because I am at a complete loss
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Aerixx
Community Member
I read through this and was thinking it was surely your well water. Then I read that reefbuilders article and I’m not so sure. I am currently cycling dry rock in a barrel in the garage to get ready for my tank. I also have a well, this post has peaked my interest, thanks for sharing following. My only question would be how old is your house? Is there a chance of old galvanized piping underneath? I know mine is old, I’ve replaced quite a bit, and it all had some almost rusty residue in it. Just a thought.
So just want to add a couple of things some said before some have not. Where did you get your rock from? I know someone who told me he traded in 300 lbs Of live rock to a LFS that he had in a fish only tank that he treated with copper for years. Maybe something leaching out of the rocks? The other thing of note, is I was just reading through a tank about a gentleman that just hit a 40 year anniversary on his tank. On 40 years he had two incidences where he lost live stock due to the city adding something (can’t remember) into the water to stop the corrosion of the copper. He had to get special filters for his RODI to take them out, and he had zero TDS when this happened. Not 100% sure how well water works, but maybe worth sending in a test of in filtered water to see what’s all in it, to ensure you RODI filters are adequate to eliminate them all
I am truly hoping it is not my water source. That would really complicate this whole thing.
My house was built in 1969 so its old but not ancient. We replaced a lot of the plumbing when we moved in but it was mostly drain lines leading to the septic tank. Lets suppose there is something leaching in from the pipes, that type of contamination SHOULD be filtered out by the RO/DI unit and even if it isnt it would show up in ICP tests right?
My rock was all purchased brand new from BRS. It was bleached and then soaked for weeks in RO/DI water followed by saltwater.
Do you have any more info about this person with the city water contamination? I would like to check this off my list because that sounds like a possibility here. My water reads 0 TDS but if something that doesnt register on an in-line TDS meter is getting through the filter I would like to know how to go about identifying it and filtering it out. I use dual BRS Universal 1micron carbon blocks for my RO/DI.
Side note: I would like to get my RO/DI water straight out of the filter tested but I am not sure where to begin or what to get it tested for. I have run ICP tests on the tank and nothing abnormal shows up so I figure ICP for the RODI water would be pointless.
Anyone have water testing suggestions?
I like the idea of the tank just needing to mature more and that it is some deficiency in biodiversity but I am having a hard time believing that something like that would cause mass coral death in a tank. I have thrown up small tanks over night before and not had issues like this. I mean, people do it for frag swaps all the time.
Could this really be as simple as biodiversity? It just feels like there has to be more to it than that.
Anyone have water testing suggestions?
I like the idea of the tank just needing to mature more and that it is some deficiency in biodiversity but I am having a hard time believing that something like that would cause mass coral death in a tank. I have thrown up small tanks over night before and not had issues like this. I mean, people do it for frag swaps all the time.
Could this really be as simple as biodiversity? It just feels like there has to be more to it than that.
Aerixx
Community Member
I would think it would show up in a test, but I’m just brainstorming and I’m no expert. Seems anything is worth a look at this point, that reef builders article is definitely in my mind on my build though. Some live bacterial rock seemed to solve their problem and that’s something to look at.
There is a product (very old school stuff) called Garfs Grunge thats been around forever that is basically high quality rubble and gunk out of an established tank to help seed new tanks. I may buy 20lb or so of that and see if it helps. I am just a little hesitant to throw in some random reef gunk into this tank that I have worked so hard to keep pests out of. I am doing my best to have an aiptasia free tank and so far so good.
Aerixx
Community Member
Where do you get that stuff, just did a quick search and didn’t see it.
Aerixx
Community Member
I also found this thread. Through the comments there seems to be quite a few that have had the same problems starting with dry rock. It seems Garths Grunge could be a good idea, just too many similarities to your problems to not take the unwanted pest risk.
www.reef2reef.com
Time to start over? Ask BRSTV, thought I'd ask my friends here, as well.
If had the opposite experience. I started with Dry rock. I dont purposely add 'gunk or ocean dirt' becasue I dont have access to it. That said - I tended when starting to add MORE coral than less - which quickly increased the biodiversity of the tank. IMHO (and its heresy I know) - some of...
www.reef2reef.com
For water testing try your county extension office, local colleges science departments or a commercial water testing service. The latter can be costly.
This is the article
Tank birthday, 47+ years
In a couple of weeks my reef will will have reached 40 years old. Unfortunately I don't remember when I was 40 but I remember when I set it up. I was a skinny 22 year old just back from Viet Nam. It is still running very well, still using the same reverse UG filter, same dolomite substrait but...
www.reef2reef.com
Interestingly similar issue there as well. I am gonna buy about 20lb of Garfs Grunge and I will bring a chunk of rock from my work tank home as well. If biodiversity is the problem, I can fix that.I also found this thread. Through the comments there seems to be quite a few that have had the same problems starting with dry rock. It seems Garths Grunge could be a good idea, just too many similarities to your problems to not take the unwanted pest risk.
Time to start over? Ask BRSTV, thought I'd ask my friends here, as well.
If had the opposite experience. I started with Dry rock. I dont purposely add 'gunk or ocean dirt' becasue I dont have access to it. That said - I tended when starting to add MORE coral than less - which quickly increased the biodiversity of the tank. IMHO (and its heresy I know) - some of...
I am also going to change out all of my RODI filters. I dont think any of them are due for it but it cant hurt and its peace of mind if nothing else.
I have lowered my lighting to 30% from 55% as well just see if that helps. I brought home some GSP, a yuma, a small piece of a hammer coral, and a little frag of sunset monti. We shall see if any of these changes help them survive.
Thank you. I'll be spending the rest of the day reading all 200 pages of that hahahaThis is the article
Tank birthday, 47+ years
In a couple of weeks my reef will will have reached 40 years old. Unfortunately I don't remember when I was 40 but I remember when I set it up. I was a skinny 22 year old just back from Viet Nam. It is still running very well, still using the same reverse UG filter, same dolomite substrait but...
griff500
Well-Known Member
Did you have sand in your successful systems?
Could your problems be because you are running without sand and that is apparently tougher for the first year or so as sand provides a great place for bacteria and biodiversity? I haven't tried a system without sand so this is just a thought.
If you started with dead rock that can also be tough for quite some time.
Could your problems be because you are running without sand and that is apparently tougher for the first year or so as sand provides a great place for bacteria and biodiversity? I haven't tried a system without sand so this is just a thought.
If you started with dead rock that can also be tough for quite some time.
This is not only my first bare bottom tank, but its also my first tank anywhere near this size.
It is absolutely possible that this is just growing pains of a big bare bottom tank. I started this tank almost at the same time that BRS set up their BRS/WWC hybrid tank though and they seem to be chugging right along with corals.
griff500
Well-Known Member
It might simply be a matter of a bit more time being required for maturity. There is a chap on here doing stuff with testing for bacteria in tanks - I wonder if your tank might be a good one to be tested?
Neoalchemist
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You mentioned a dino fight. Im a little over a year post dino war.
It was a long dirty fight, with 4 different species of dino. I threw almost everything in the tool box at it. The tank was nearing 1 year old when dino took over, so most of the livestock and more than a few corals were already in the tank.
After the fight was mostly over i was just practicing nutrient management, keeping the uv running and waiting for the tank to stabilize. At this point I was warily adding a few corals here and there.
All corals were surviving but not growing and it seemed like without my intervention and close supervision probably would have died.
Things were gradually smoothing out.
Then somewhere at about a full year after the last major dino were spotted. I noticed a strong distinkt oder change in the water, it was like night and day. And all of the sudden the tank smelled like fresh sea water again. I had gotten used to the smell of dino water. And the change was remarkable, I even put a note in my logs.
After that the tank started to finally act like a real tank again and the corals started growing like mad.
What I think Im gatting at here is that the dinos caused my tank to go through two different cycles, one normal and one post dino.
It took the better part of a year for the healthy microbial population to fully reclaim the territory and resourses the the dinos were using.
So at this point in your case I believe time and stabillity and dilligence are all thats required.
Some Garf grunge may help speed things along but might also give you pests so that is up to you( I added rock and sand from lfs systems
During my dino fight and ended up with some pretty annoying pest so theres that). So yeah, give it time and keep it solid and I think you're tank will turn around soon.
It was a long dirty fight, with 4 different species of dino. I threw almost everything in the tool box at it. The tank was nearing 1 year old when dino took over, so most of the livestock and more than a few corals were already in the tank.
After the fight was mostly over i was just practicing nutrient management, keeping the uv running and waiting for the tank to stabilize. At this point I was warily adding a few corals here and there.
All corals were surviving but not growing and it seemed like without my intervention and close supervision probably would have died.
Things were gradually smoothing out.
Then somewhere at about a full year after the last major dino were spotted. I noticed a strong distinkt oder change in the water, it was like night and day. And all of the sudden the tank smelled like fresh sea water again. I had gotten used to the smell of dino water. And the change was remarkable, I even put a note in my logs.
After that the tank started to finally act like a real tank again and the corals started growing like mad.
What I think Im gatting at here is that the dinos caused my tank to go through two different cycles, one normal and one post dino.
It took the better part of a year for the healthy microbial population to fully reclaim the territory and resourses the the dinos were using.
So at this point in your case I believe time and stabillity and dilligence are all thats required.
Some Garf grunge may help speed things along but might also give you pests so that is up to you( I added rock and sand from lfs systems
During my dino fight and ended up with some pretty annoying pest so theres that). So yeah, give it time and keep it solid and I think you're tank will turn around soon.
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MattJS
Active Member
Just my opinion, but with your fish doing amazing, coralline growing like crazy, chaeto growing well, and your triton tests coming back really good that your water is fine. And with all the live rock your nitrifying bacteria should be good too.
Could be something as simple as your light intensity. And it wouldn’t take a whole lot to eliminate that. You mentioned the lowest par being 107 and the highest being 350 if I remember right. But with the tank being shallow the avg might be closer to 250-300 maybe?
Unique corals keeps all of their LPS at 100 par, SPS at 200-250 par, and Chalices closer to 20 par. I know that is just what they stick to, but it’s not bad to use as a baseline.
Rather than turn some lights off or anything like that, you could always dial down the intensity of the AB+ schedule to 25% or so and go from there. Just an idea.
Good luck. Amazing set up by the way. You’ve put a lot into it, and I hope it’s easy to get figured.
Could be something as simple as your light intensity. And it wouldn’t take a whole lot to eliminate that. You mentioned the lowest par being 107 and the highest being 350 if I remember right. But with the tank being shallow the avg might be closer to 250-300 maybe?
Unique corals keeps all of their LPS at 100 par, SPS at 200-250 par, and Chalices closer to 20 par. I know that is just what they stick to, but it’s not bad to use as a baseline.
Rather than turn some lights off or anything like that, you could always dial down the intensity of the AB+ schedule to 25% or so and go from there. Just an idea.
Good luck. Amazing set up by the way. You’ve put a lot into it, and I hope it’s easy to get figured.
I found it! Thank you! Sounds like it was a Zinc based chemical. It SHOULD show up in ICP but that doesnt mean anything.
Sounds like the place (The Filter Guys) that he was getting his filters from closed. Ill have to dig around and see what I can find. Maybe send him a PM just to see his opinion.
Nothing like that is listed on the Water Reports for our water but thats not proof.
Thanks I appreciate the insight. I cant say I have noticed a smell one way or the other but I may just not be sensitive to it. The dino fight wasnt super long ago (5months maybe at most) so maybe it does just need to calm down.
I tested my NO3 and PO4 last night for the first time in a bit and NO3 is at 5ppm and PO4 is at 0.02. If i cant hold it at those numbers I think that will help as well.
I did lower my lights to 30% just as a precaution. Only time will tell here. Thanks for the input though. It would be wild if all these problems were just me having my lights too bright haha. I have run tanks at much higher PAR than this before but maybe it being a newer (less stable) tank the bright light is just too much.
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