ATI water test results.....how do I move to correct issues?

[whtemajik]

So, I've been dealing with brown on my sand and after water change after water change, and even a black-out resulting in no improvement. I ordered a water teat at the suggestion of another reefer. What I gather is there are a couple of issues from the results, and it is silicon and aluminum; however it's not coming from the RO/DI source, so it must be something in my tank right? Could someone please look at these, verify my beliefs, and help with a source. The sand is carib-sea and most of the rock was dead rock, and a few of the man-made rocks(carib-sea too) which has now been in the tank for two years. All other water parameters have been checked and are in range for a reef tank and none of my corals show any issues(LPS,SPS,Zoas, Softies)
RO/DI 1st 3 results

Tank water results last 3 pics

 

[blaxsun]

How often are you performing water changes, and how much?

 

[ScottB]

Howdy. High aluminum is a nothing burger. Don't sweat that. If someone suggests you remove it with an iron-based GFO, you can, however your low phosphate levels will zero out and your corals will be very upset about that. And then also your sand will turn brown with dinoflagellates. Same is largely true for your silicates.

Get some samples of the "brown stuff on sand" under a student microscope (@400X) to determine whether it is diatoms, coolia dinos, or large cell amphidinium dinos. My guess is the latter.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I do not really see anything actionable, except possibly using a trace element supplement with ions such as iron and manganese, and if the brown is diatoms, focusing on the silicate.

While high aluminum can be a serious issue (I disagree with the previous post), yours is not high enough to attain that level (IMO).

Nothing I see is a cause of brown on sand, which could be a variety of things, such as dinos or cyanobacteria (unless it is diatoms, which require silicate).

 

[whtemajik]

How often are you performing water changes, and how much?

I did a series of 25 gallons every 4 days for two weeks to get any possible No4 and No3 which could attribute to my issue, then a three day black-out, and now I'm back to 25 a week. The tank volume is 210 gallons.

 

[whtemajik]

I do not really see anything actionable, except possibly using a trace element supplement with ions such as iron and manganese, and if the brown is diatoms, focusing on the silicate.

While high aluminum can be a serious issue (I disagree with the previous post), yours is not high enough to attain that level (IMO).

Nothing I see is a cause of brown on sand, which could be a variety of things, such as dinos or cyanobacteria (unless it is diatoms, which require silicate).

Randy,

Thank you for that response. I have added some pictures to show my issue. I have had dino's before and they usually have the stringy attachments, correct? I also did a treatment for cyano when this first began, before the multiple phases of water changes and black-out. If it is diatoms, due to the silicates, what would you suggest to combat that problem. I have two reactors running, one with cheato and the other with carbon.

 

[ScottB]

Randy,

Thank you for that response. I have added some pictures to show my issue. I have had dino's before and they usually have the stringy attachments, correct? I also did a treatment for cyano when this first began, before the multiple phases of water changes and black-out. If it is diatoms, due to the silicates, what would you suggest to combat that problem. I have two reactors running, one with cheato and the other with carbon.

Large cell amphidinium tend to mingle/compete with cyanobacteria but you nuked those so somebody is filling that void for you. Super common to have this after Chemiclean or other erythromycin (antibiotic) treatments. They do not produce a stringy snot like most of the others do and will remain bound to the sand for the most part. On the bright side, they are not very toxic at all. Their primary competitor is diatoms, which given your silicate numbers should be coming along at some point.

While I am giving you something more than an educated guess, I would still advise that you confirm microscopically which organism you have with a $40 kids microscope. Post a camera phone video here where a handful of us can ID what you have.

Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

Hello. I have an update. This is what I already did: 1 day black out. H202 dose (only for one day). My phosphates needed a huge push in order to make it rise above 0.02 to 0.05. After my blackout my tank looked foggy. I tested my phosphates and it’s 0.2ppm! There’s a significant decrease in...

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[whtemajik]

Large cell amphidinium tend to mingle/compete with cyanobacteria but you nuked those so somebody is filling that void for you. Super common to have this after Chemiclean or other erythromycin (antibiotic) treatments. They do not produce a stringy snot like most of the others do and will remain bound to the sand for the most part. On the bright side, they are not very toxic at all. Their primary competitor is diatoms, which given your silicate numbers should be coming along at some point.

While I am giving you something more than an educated guess, I would still advise that you confirm microscopically which organism you have with a $40 kids microscope. Post a camera phone video here where a handful of us can ID what you have.

Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

Hello. I have an update. This is what I already did: 1 day black out. H202 dose (only for one day). My phosphates needed a huge push in order to make it rise above 0.02 to 0.05. After my blackout my tank looked foggy. I tested my phosphates and it’s 0.2ppm! There’s a significant decrease in...

www.reef2reef.com

Ok, I will order or locate a microscope and see what I can identify. Thank you for your help and I will follow-up in a couple of days, once I get it from Amazon, if I cannot get one from Wal-Mart later today. I will also upload a pic in my reply.

 

[moz71]

Does look like the Dino’s I had recently which I eliminated with a UV Which I believe was the large cell type mentioned above. The one good thing is this is type that the UV helps/kills .

 

[ReefJonas]

I do not really see anything actionable, except possibly using a trace element supplement with ions such as iron and manganese, and if the brown is diatoms, focusing on the silicate.

While high aluminum can be a serious issue (I disagree with the previous post), yours is not high enough to attain that level (IMO).

Nothing I see is a cause of brown on sand, which could be a variety of things, such as dinos or cyanobacteria (unless it is diatoms, which require silicate).

I disagree to some extent. He has a quite typical appearance of Dino and there is a known connection between that and low po4. His test says 0.01 meaning he can be even lower sometimes maybe. I would try to raise po4 slowly. I don’t say it solves issue because once Dino it’s hard to manage but I think there could be connected to the ultra low po4.
Jonas

 

[whtemajik]

Does look like the Dino’s I had recently which I eliminated with a UV Which I believe was the large cell type mentioned above. The one good thing is this is type that the UV helps/kills .

I have a large UV sterilizer plumbed in line with my return and it’s on 24/7 unless I’m cleaning it or changing the bulb. I have the microscope and will follow up shortly.

 

[ScottB]

I have a large UV sterilizer plumbed in line with my return and it’s on 24/7 unless I’m cleaning it or changing the bulb. I have the microscope and will follow up shortly.

A UV is good for many different pests but if I am correct with LC Amphids UV won't help. They cling to the sand and dont go swimming at night or during blackout. They go to cyst form when they need to. Enough with all that though until we get an ID.

Just an aside now that you have the 'scope. My son does all the photo work through my microscope. Just better at it than a middle age guy. Much better. Unless you are a surgeon or dentist or something.

 

[rtparty]

Most of the results are fine. Aluminum is only an issue if you know the form it is in in your tank. I would be shocked if it was causing any issues. We routinely see aluminum around that number with ICP tests. Especially if any ceramic media was ever used in the tank.

Your problem is lack of nutrients. Water changes are only hurting the situation here. Your sand is covered in dinos so uppping nutrients plus adding more biodiversity can help.

 

[NanoMan16]

Ok well I’m going to go out and against the grain here. First off what your seeing is very common among reefs. This is something we all battle from time to time “come on admit it guys” Usually nitrates are high. The UV is a great thing but has minor drawbacks like anything else would. I mostly use and recommend for FO or FOWLR …lol. Again THIS IS ONLY MY OPINION!…lol. So all you out there just back up…lol. It’s all trial and error to an extent. What works for one of my tanks kills the other so… keep that in mind. Don’t you just love this hobby…lol. I recommend addressing your CUC. Snails, crabs, if you have enough open sand a sand sifting star fish. Or if you like there are several types of fish that clean your sand. I don’t recommend though. More offer than not you will wake up one morning and all your sand is on one side killing your coral. It’s happened to me.

 

[whtemajik]

Ok, I will order or locate a microscope and see what I can identify. Thank you for your help and I will follow-up in a couple of days, once I get it from Amazon, if I cannot get one from Wal-Mart later today. I will also upload a pic in my reply.

Ok, I found a microscope and my daughter looked at the slides, because I couldn’t see or identify anything. She believes they look like the Dino strand cryptomonad or cryptomonas. Not sure what that means or how to proceed. Do you have any new advice?

 

[ScottB]

Ok, I found a microscope and my daughter looked at the slides, because I couldn’t see or identify anything. She believes they look like the Dino strand cryptomonad or cryptomonas. Not sure what that means or how to proceed. Do you have any new advice?

Have her shoot a video through the eyepiece with your camera phone. Then post that in the "Are you tired" dino thread I linked earlier.

There are tens of thousands of dino species, but only about 5-6 that we see in captive systems. Here is an ID guide with linked videos to show the swim patterns if you wish to self identify.

Dinoflagellate Identification Guide

I've had this laying around for a while. Had some recent interest, so I tweaked it a bit and am posting it. Not really about cures just ID pictures, videos, and a few short facts. Hope it can be helpful.

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