Avoiding the ugly stage?!?

[Rhetoric]

Whoever started this avoid ugly stage "idea" should be canceled. /pointsatbrs

 

[sixty_reefer]

Whoever started this avoid ugly stage "idea" should be canceled. /pointsatbrs

How come?

 

[Sdoutreefer]

Wouldn't blue light also still grow algae?

I just about wiped out my uglies with only blue light. Maybe it was a combination of nutrients and my CUC getting a grip on the algae, but all algae was completely white and dyeing after a week of only blue light.

I also didn't lose any of my higher light demanding coral.

 

[Rhetoric]

How come?

How does the hobby define ugly stage?

Diatoms?
Green hair algea?

These are natural parts of starting a aquarium. It creates the idea that something is wrong, and that the aquarium keepers should do something about it.

It's selling fear, instead of education.

Selling things seems to be 90% off the hobby these days.

 

[Tamberav]

Here is my GhA farm with blues only at 10 percent. I grew this algae with the lights at those settings.

Here is the same rock like a week later after I added CUC.

Clean up crew does the job… eventually they will have this all cleared away, diatoms and GhA are palatable to cuc and easy to deal with. It’s Dino’s and turf algae’s and certain bryopsis that are a headache.

My bet is cyano will be my next ugly stage when this is all cleared away. The cyano will be an indicator of where I may have excess debris collecting from low flow so it will come time to adjust that next and monitor nutrients.

Hopefully coralline then comes next and not Dino.

 

[sixty_reefer]

in

How does the hobby define ugly stage?

Diatoms?
Green hair algea?

These are natural parts of starting a aquarium. It creates the idea that something is wrong, and that the aquarium keepers should do something about it.

It's selling fear, instead of education.

Selling things seems to be 90% off the hobby these days.

In my days the ugly stage used to be in relation to diatoms as it’s the only thing that is unavoidable and normal to happen imo, anything past that it was part of the maturing process of the system.
Today it seems that by reading the forum, the main definition is anything that could go wrong in the first few months it’s defined as ugly stage that includes nuisance algae’s, Cyanobacteria dinoflagellates etc..

 

[ChrisfromBrick]

If I put in some starter coraline algae will I avoid it?

as someone said, no. You can get free coraline from a snail shell, but dont even attempt it until maybe the 4-6 month mark, when your tank has some semblance of stability (it still may not). The bottled stuff works as far as I know but why pay money when coralline is on everything from snails to frags. It has crossed my mind to purchase the vivid pink coralline bottle because all I have is dark purple coralline, but then I realized how ridiculous that would be. My tank did a pretty unconventional thing and I started getting coralline chicken pox on my rockwork before plastic parts and glass. I found that pretty interesting.

 

[BryanM]

If I put in some starter coraline algae will I avoid it?

As people have said, pretty much no.

You get better results with live rock, but you still have some issues.

 

[ChrisfromBrick]

I just about wiped out my uglies with only blue light. Maybe it was a combination of nutrients and my CUC getting a grip on the algae, but all algae was completely white and dyeing after a week of only blue light.

I also didn't lose any of my higher light demanding coral.

I believe it, but you are the outlier.

 

[ChrisfromBrick]

I got diatoms and thought that was easy until the dinos (didnt look under microscope) or red slime came. Water changes and time seemed to help me get through that. I did do the coral snow/bacteria (yes probably a waste) route too but cant confirm if that helped it. It was probably shortening my light schedule combined with patience and more water movement that got me through that mess. Now, I have turf algae but very manageable.

 

[Tamberav]

If I put in some starter coraline algae will I avoid it?

If it were as easy as buying a bottle of xyz, everyone would just do that and we wouldn't ever have these conversations.

 

[Lavey29]

Hey OP, it's great that you are new to the hobby and learning. As others mentioned. Patience is the most essential element in this hobby and if you don't have it you are destined for a long bumpy ride to failure here. Ugly phases are a normal part of tank development. It's how your overall biome grows and eventually stabilizes. You just need to accept the fact that the first year is filled with hurdles but if you do your part your tank will eventually stabilize nicely. New reefers need to avoid expensive corals the first year because the lack of experience will hurt your wallet. Just keep doing research to understand various techniques and weekly water changes the first year. Work on developing biodiversity and microfauna.

 

[Exotrezy]

I just about wiped out my uglies with only blue light. Maybe it was a combination of nutrients and my CUC getting a grip on the algae, but all algae was completely white and dyeing after a week of only blue light.

I also didn't lose any of my higher light demanding coral.

What should I do about my diatoms, I know they have barely came but I started getting brown spots that I think are diatoms. Check out post on my profile for pics and let me know what I can do.

 

[Lasse]

I'm getting a lot of different information. Idk what to do lol

Use your own brain - its you that have the responsible for your animals welfare. Read and use your own knowledge how things works around you when you decide which path you will take.

(There’s nothing that I’m aware that is able to compete with diatoms).

Depends on - many people thinks that you get the diatoms because you have silica in the water (they use silicon in their skeleton) The thinking before ICP was that when all the silica was consumed (by diatoms) they died. When people start to test their water with ICP - it shows up that a normal reef aquarium have a silicon content of around 100-200 µg/L but no diatoms. The reason for the diatom bloom in the beginning is not the silica content - its - IMO - the lack off/low concentration of inorganic P and N (PO4, NH3/NH4 and/or NO3) in the water. Diatoms is very good to use very low PO4 concentrations - in that environment nothing can compete with them. However in environment with a little higher content of PO4 - a lot of organism compete them out. IMO - that´s the reason why live rocks give a better result - they always release som phosphorous if you don´t have killed them with a too rigid "cure" period. The - still IMO - most common mistake people do is to try remove all nutrients from the beginning and don´t have an enough large CUC in the aquarium. (Or introduce it when its to late)

I would start by taking your zoa frag out and put it in a buddys tank or have your lfs hold it for you and just shut your lights off for like a month. Your fish wont care.

Most corals (the one that use photosynthesis) is normally not a netto load according nutrients - they are the total opposite. If you have PO4 and NH3/NH4 or/and NO3 in the water - its OK to introduce them the first week.

Diatoms?
Green hair algea?

These are natural parts of starting a aquarium. It creates the idea that something is wrong, and that the aquarium keepers should do something about it.

IMO - they are not natural parts as pests - they can all be controlled to not be a problem even if they always are present - but not taking over the ecosystem if you know which forces you have to handle.

To say that algae grow lesser in blue light compared with white light is also a misunderstanding and an underestimation - IMO. Different algae have different sweet spots according to light spectra but all can harvest the blue photons. I may highlight that the corals photosynthesis is managed by an algae - and not only an algae - it is a dinoflagellate - for the moment the most hated algae group;) However - in blue light - the viewer doesn't see the algae that well.

The fifteen steps in my article have all grown from more than 50 years of experience with life-sustaining aquatic systems of various types and sizes - hands on experiences mostly. All steps are part of a holistic approach to aquatic systems.

What should I do about my diatoms, I know they have barely came but I started getting brown spots that I think are diatoms. Check out post on my profile for pics and let me know what I can do.

What´s your PO4?

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Exotrezy]

Hey OP, it's great that you are new to the hobby and learning. As others mentioned. Patience is the most essential element in this hobby and if you don't have it you are destined for a long bumpy ride to failure here. Ugly phases are a normal part of tank development. It's how your overall biome grows and eventually stabilizes. You just need to accept the fact that the first year is filled with hurdles but if you do your part your tank will eventually stabilize nicely. New reefers need to avoid expensive corals the first year because the lack of experience will hurt your wallet. Just keep doing research to understand various techniques and weekly water changes the first year. Work on developing biodiversity and microfauna.

Hey man, I know you were helping me earlier and you helped me understand a lot, I just wanted to ask a couple more questions. So I should get a small clean up crew but not yet as the diatoms havent spread yet. Do I need to do anything else? I will do water changes etc.

 

[Exotrezy]

Use your own brain - its you that have the responsible for your animals welfare. Read and use your own knowledge how things works around you when you decide which path you will take.



Depends on - many people thinks that you get the diatoms because you have silica in the water (they use silicon in their skeleton) The thinking before ICP was that when all the silica was consumed (by diatoms) they died. When people start to test their water with ICP - it shows up that a normal reef aquarium have a silicon content of around 100-200 µg/L but no diatoms. The reason for the diatom bloom in the beginning is not the silica content - its - IMO - the lack/low concentration of inorganic P and N (PO4, NH3/NH4 and/or NO3) in the water. Diatoms is very good to use very low PO4 concentrations - in that environment nothing can compete with them. However in environment with a little higher content of PO4 - a lot of organism compete them out. IMO - that´s the reason why live rocks give a better result - they always release som phosphorous if you don´t have killed them with a too rigid "cure" period. The - still IMO - most common mistake people do is to try remove all nutrients from the beginning and don´t have an enough large CUC in the aquarium. (Or introduce it when its to late)


Most corals (the one that use photosynthesis) is normally not a netto load according nutrients - they are the total opposite. If you have PO4 and NH3/NH4 or/and NO3 in the water - its OK to introduce them the first week.


IMO - they are not natural parts as pests - they can all be controlled to not be a problem even if they always are present - but not taking over the ecosystem if you know which forces you have to handle.

To say that algae grow lesser in blue light compared with white light is also a misunderstanding and an underestimation - IMO. Different algae have different sweet spots according to light spectra but all can harvest the blue photons. I may highlight that the corals photosynthesis is managed by an algae - and not only an algae - it is a dinoflagellate - for the moment the most hated algae group;) However - in blue light - the viewer doesn't see the algae that well.

The fifteen steps in my article have all grown from more than 50 years of experience with life-sustaining aquatic systems of various types and sizes - hands on experiences mostly. All steps are part of a holistic approach to aquatic systems.


What´s your PO4?

Sincerely Lasse

PO4 is phosphate right? I would have to get a measuring kit as my master reef test kit doesn't have phosphate.

 

[ChrisfromBrick]

PO4 is phosphate right? I would have to get a measuring kit as my master reef test kit doesn't have phosphate.

yea you need to have nitrate and phosphate to at least know your nutrient levels. Salifert makes good ones and if you want to spend the money, Hanna will give you an exact reading (with an implied margin of error of course).

 

[Tamberav]

What should I do about my diatoms, I know they have barely came but I started getting brown spots that I think are diatoms. Check out post on my profile for pics and let me know what I can do.

So the diatom bloom is fueled by silicates which new rock/equiptment/sand has excess of. You just add a clean up crew to munch on them and continue regular maintenance and as they use up silicate, they eventually subside. So, CUC, continue good husbandry, and wait.... and be silently judged by friends and family who know nothing about reef tanks and think you must be doing something wrong to have such a "dirty" tank.

 

[Lavey29]

Hey man, I know you were helping me earlier and you helped me understand a lot, I just wanted to ask a couple more questions. So I should get a small clean up crew but not yet as the diatoms havent spread yet. Do I need to do anything else? I will do water changes etc.

If your tank is new and lights on which has initiated the diatom stage then you can start adding a few snails like trochus snails because next you will start seeing some green algae on rocks, all normal. As the rocks begin to color and algae starts forming on the back wall add some more snails and a few scarlet leg hermits. Also add pods which are good cleaners too. Basically you want enough diverse cleaners to maintain your tank but not to much to cause die off. The number one cleaner is yourself. Siphoning sand and manual algae removal as needed. To much white light will cause problems to in new tanks.

 

[Rhetoric]

IMO - they are not natural parts as pests - they can all be controlled to not be a problem even if they always are present - but not taking over the ecosystem if you know which forces you have to handle.

I agree with you that they can be controlled. I think the idea of skipping or avoiding is miss leading. Some of the strategies to avoid are out right silly.