Back at it! Peroxide vrs cyanobacteria

[twilliard]

Can I send a sample? If yes whats the best packaging method?

Thanks

Edit...I understand about the not disturbing part but the stuff on the rock doesn't always release easily.

Yes it is easy to ship. I get samples in from members all the time. They won't die ;)
Shoot me a pm for shipping instructions and details

 

[RMS18]

Are you referring to no3? These would be extremely elevated levels of po4

Nope I keep my phosphates around 10-13ppm per hanna. Unless my hanna is off but once I dip below 5ppm my zoas start to close up and shrink away. Lps don't open fully. For a long time I thought it was my lighting then I started to just feed more and it was almost a over night fix. Cyno I had since day 1, I have fiji pink ls which some day come with cyno. But I had the cyno even while having low phosphates.

 

[fab]

I know a lot of people are trying this on their own ....not fully understanding WHAT cyanobacteria is, how it functions and how it survives.
Also as noted in my earlier post some people think it's cyanobacteria when it's actually not.

Would you please advise on these very points.

1. What exactly is cyanobacteria?
2. How does it function?
3. How does it survive?
4. How do we identify it correctly? ...both generally and in detail, please.
5. What are the confusors we need to be aware of?


Thanks for this thread. I have read all of it once and much of it a few times. I am definitely following.

 

[fab]

What is your current rough estimation for the timeframe of a report being available? ... Weeks, months, years?

Will you put a draft out for review and comments? This is a monumental effort on your part. Again and again, thank you and all who have actively participated with their aquaria.

 

[twilliard]

Would you please advise on these very points.

1. What exactly is cyanobacteria?
2. How does it function?
3. How does it survive?
4. How do we identify it correctly? ...both generally and in detail, please.
5. What are the confusors we need to be aware of?


Thanks for this thread. I have read all of it once and much of it a few times. I am definitely following.

These exact questions will be answered in my writeup. I would love to answer these questions here but doing so it will get lost in the number of pages comming up in this thread.
A very good starting point to these questions start here
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanobacteria
From there a person can expand on the information

 

[twilliard]

What is your current rough estimation for the timeframe of a report being available? ... Weeks, months, years?

Will you put a draft out for review and comments? This is a monumental effort on your part. Again and again, thank you and all who have actively participated with their aquaria.

My report I hope to have out in a few months.
There are a few topics that need answered and my partner and I are currently working on this.

 

[fab]

What is the difference to us between using the "brown bottle" 3% H2O2 vs the food grade (is it 35% ?) version? Is there a purity issue or is the difference only in concentration level?

How much of the 3% solution would I use per day in a 100 litre tank?

How much of the stronger solution would I use per day in a 100 litre tank?

I've seen "squirting it in" used in these posts and I see "dosing." Is it better to put the entire daily amount in all at once so there is a bit of a surge in concentration or is it better to use a dosing device to spread the daily amount out in tiny amounts over 12 or over 24 hours with it well mixed in with tank water before the dose enters the display tank? ...e.g., mixed by dosing into high turbulence area of sump.

Which is better? 12 hours or 24 hours?

Should dosing be daytime or nighttime? Does lighting intensity matter...high, low, none?

 

[twilliard]

What is the difference to us between using the "brown bottle" 3% H2O2 vs the food grade (is it 35% ?) version? Is there a purity issue or is the difference only in concentration level?

It is a difference in concentration of peroxide. I have never used anything higher than the standard 3%. I can not advise directions for anything higher.

How much of the 3% solution would I use per day in a 100 litre tank?

It would be roughly 2.5ml depending on actual volume after rock displacement

How much of the stronger solution would I use per day in a 100 litre tank?

I can not give direction for this as only the standard 3% is used in this work.

I've seen "squirting it in" used in these posts and I see "dosing." Is it better to put the entire daily amount in all at once so there is a bit of a surge in concentration or is it better to use a dosing device to spread the daily amount out in tiny amounts over 12 or over 24 hours with it well mixed in with tank water before the dose enters the display tank? ...e.g., mixed by dosing into high turbulence area of sump.

Squirting it in may be harmful to any curious fish, shrimp.
You are on the right thought process of adding h2o2 in turbulent areas.
Slow introduction is best with a syringe

Which is better? 12 hours or 24 hours?

12 hour dosing is best

Should dosing be daytime or nighttime? Does lighting intensity matter...high, low, none?

It should be both dose start of lights on and then 12 hours later during lights off
High intensity will shorten the lifespan of h2o2 but increase its ability to oxidize

 

[fab]

High intensity will shorten the lifespan of h2o2 but increase its ability to oxidize

Does this suggest dosing a larger portion of the daily dose at lights on and the smaller remainder at lights off? ... Or the opposite? ...or is this out of scope for this go round?

 

[fab]

Are you recommending dosing slowly with a syringe for several seconds 2x per day over using a dosing pump spreading out the dosing over the entire multiday dosing period? My system net water volume is currently 1,000 gallons, so the daily dosage should be 94.6 ml per day, at 2.5 ml/ 100 litres net water volume. That is basically 1/10th litre per day.

Calculated:
(2.5 ml/100 litres/ day)*(3785 liters / 1000 gallons) = 94.6 ml / day.

My questions about continuous dosing versus manual dosing 2x per day should have been asked in the context of a large volume of water. What do you think on this? I can see clearly why a syringe is better for much smaller volumes of water.


Also, Is my total daily dose of 94.6 ml/day correct?

 

[twilliard]

Are you recommending dosing slowly with a syringe for several seconds 2x per day over using a dosing pump spreading out the dosing over the entire multiday dosing period? My system net water volume is currently 1,000 gallons, so the daily dosage should be 94.6 ml per day, at 2.5 ml/ 100 litres net water volume. That is basically 1/10th litre per day.

Calculated:
(2.5 ml/100 litres/ day)*(3785 liters / 1000 gallons) = 94.6 ml / day.

My questions about continuous dosing versus manual dosing 2x per day should have been asked in the context of a large volume of water. What do you think on this? I can see clearly why a syringe is better for much smaller volumes of water.


Also, Is my total daily dose of 94.6 ml/day correct?

The constant dose of h2o2 has one problem.
As h2o2 is dosed it lowers ORP. So dosing over 24 hours may not allow the ORP to come back to normal.
And yes you are correct on the dose but better to do it in 12 hour sets.
Sorry if I am not catching all the questions my wife and I are signing four our new home today and a lot of prep work to do.

 

[RMS18]

Day 5 and no change cyno mat is becoming thicker.

 

[AllSignsPointToFish]

I started dosing peroxide a few days ago at nearly twice the recommended dose...12.5 mL twice per day for a 125 gallon system. Looks like the cyano is suffering but nothing else really seems to be affected.

 

[brandon429]

Wanted to point out a safety difference between 3% and 35%

- if a person cupped half an ounce liquid 3% in their palm ten mins, then rinsed, skin would turn white and tingle for about 20 mins then be normal in an hour.

- repeated with 35% it would be at minimum second degree chemical burn especially if any breaks in skin are found, and for less callused hands likely worse burn-including debriding of upper skin layers/ str corneum etc

-though not advised, a splash drop of 3% in the eye rinsed out would be irritating but not an issue. 35% as a single drop directly on soft corneal tissue would be Dr visit, excruciating pain, and blindness if not immediately rinsed it's incalculable risk to eyes. Poster ermartin I believe was the one reminding me of safety long about 2010 ish I never forgot his advice.

I wouldn't own 35% in a household with small children, I would use then discard all unused it's simply too dang mean. Can't believe it's sold OTC...it's primary use as a bath additive (sounds tingly?) or fruit prep wash or for some peeps the ideal external spot kill in a delicate reef tank. I would and did own it around a teenage daughter as they are inherently more sane with caustic chemicals than teenage boys who will try to employ it with ill-gotten intent. I myself would have fashioned some sort of boosted squirt gun to chase my bro

 

[fab]

Randy, congrats on your new house!

 

[twilliard]

Major update for my followers!

If you have been dosing h2o2 and have not been seeing improvement please read!


I have conclusively found through members tanks that there is another form of life that looks identical to the eye in your tank.
H2O2 WILL NOT TOUCH IT
It's called spirulina
I have been getting samples in from members tanks where h2o2 is not reducing the spread of these mats.
Under the scope it is NOT cyanobacteria
Now you can have a combination of both but h2o2 will ONLY treat for cyanobacteria

If you are in a situation that h2o2 is having no change I highly recommend you send me a sample to verify what you are exactly dealing with.
As of right now h2o2 will NOT harm spirulina unless in mass doses.
Thank you all I am working hard to help with members tanks!

 

[twilliard]

 

[brandon429]

Never heard that distinction, gold finding nice one!

 

[ksc]

Not sure if you've read this:
Applicability of Hydrogen Peroxide in Brown Tide Control – Culture and Microcosm Studies

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0047844

 

[twilliard]

Never heard that distinction, gold finding nice one!

Yes this finding will help a lot of people frustrated that it won't go away.
I am trying to culture this also but is posing to be a challenge.