Bacterial infection??

[thatfishnerd]

Hello,
The other day I observed one of my Tomato clowns, it was acting normal but i t had this white splotch on each side of its body. My research teacher (who has extensive experience with fish) thinks it is a bacterial infection. Although I can't find anything online that looks similar to what is on my fish. Any ideas about what it is? Treatment options?
Thanks!!

 

[maxxin69]

I would think velvet would be a better guess. You can treat with Cupramine and Maracyn 2, which is an antibacterial that is safe to use with Cupramine. Although confirmation would be nice.

 

[Humblefish]

Looks like brooklynella to me. Is this a new clownfish?

 

[thatfishnerd]

I thought velvet was only recognizable after death or are there strands that show symptoms before death? Brooklynella also looks similar to what the fish has. We have had this fish in the lab for upwards of 6 years, so not new. Treatment for Brooklynella?

 

[Humblefish]

The only way a 6 y/o clown has brook (or velvet) is if it was recently introduced by a new fish, or the encysted stage hitchhiked over on a new rock/coral/invert. There's also the possibility of cross contamination from another tank (ex. wet hands), which can inadvertently introduce the free swimming stage.

Standard treatment for brook is formalin (37% Formaldehyde) treatment. It's also a good, but temporary, treatment for velvet. Most opt to perform 30-45 min formalin baths on the fish (every 2-3 days), as prolonged exposure (i.e. in-tank treatment) can be rather harsh and quickly depletes the tank water of oxygen. You will need to put the fish in a new tank with "clean water" after each bath to prevent reinfection; or treat the QT with something like Chloroquine phosphate to shield the fish from reinfection. Alternative treatments for brook include Acriflavine & metronidazole; I know people who have successfully treated brook with those, but I have no first hand experience.

Velvet can be difficult/tricky to see, which is why I think you are dealing with brook here. Sometimes you will see this gold sheen on the fish, but only if you are looking at the right angle and under the right spectrum of light. Many times if a fish looks to have a really bad case of ich (i.e. completely covered), it is actually velvet. Velvet tends to kill before visible symptoms present themselves, because the dinospores typically invade the gills first and the fish suffocates to death from excess fluid building up. This is why you usually have to rely upon behavioral symptoms (ex. heavy breathing, swimming into the flow of a powerhead, reclusiveness, sensitive to light) for diagnosing velvet.

 

[Humblefish]

If you decide to do the formalin bath, be sure to aerate the water heavily both before and during the bath. First sign of distress, pull the fish out.

 

[maxxin69]

Agreed with humble.

 

[bairdimusprime]

Humble is dead on

 

[Reefahholic]

Yes, that's Brook. Formalin MS.

3 min FW dips help too.

Use double the recommend strength of formalin and double the time. I've done this the last 2x with Brook and was able to rid it on both occasions. I did loose a few fish in the process before treatment.

 

[thatfishnerd]

Yes, that's Brook. Formalin MS.

3 min FW dips help too.

Use double the recommend strength of formalin and double the time. I've done this the last 2x with Brook and was able to rid it on both occasions. I did loose a few fish in the process before treatment.

As humblefish stated, it can't be brook due to the fact that nothing has been added to that tank for years as well as none of the other systems have ever had brooknella. I put the clown in quarantine with a bubbler and heater with one drop of pre-made copper sulfate in the solution as it can treat a wide variety of diseases. Since this fish is property of the lab at my school, my teacher said if the copper sulfate doesn't work in a few days, we are going to anesthetize her and try to scrape the parasite/bacteria/whatever it is off of the fish. The fish will be anesthetized with a 60 mg/L clove oil solution. Reefaholic, why do you think its Brooknella?

~Sean

 

[Humblefish]

I would use a broad spectrum antibiotic (ex. kanamycin) in conjunction with copper sulfate just to be on the safe side. You can also safely add metronidazole to that mix to cover the possibility of brook or even Uronema marinum. Uronema is an opportunistic parasite that can lay dormant almost indefinitely in an infected aquarium. It does not require a fish host to survive, and usually only strikes fish with a weakened or otherwise compromised immune system. Visible symptoms can be similar to brook.

Using clove oil will euthanize this fish, not anesthetize. IMO; there is no need to kill it just to get a skin scrape. You can sedate the fish using finquel/tricaine. Take your skin scrape. Put the fish in clean water and create movement over gills. Voila! Fish lives to fight another day.

 

[Reefahholic]

As humblefish stated, it can't be brook due to the fact that nothing has been added to that tank for years as well as none of the other systems have ever had brooknella. I put the clown in quarantine with a bubbler and heater with one drop of pre-made copper sulfate in the solution as it can treat a wide variety of diseases. Since this fish is property of the lab at my school, my teacher said if the copper sulfate doesn't work in a few days, we are going to anesthetize her and try to scrape the parasite/bacteria/whatever it is off of the fish. The fish will be anesthetized with a 60 mg/L clove oil solution. Reefaholic, why do you think its Brooknella?
~Sean

I thought I was Brook because it looks exactly like that.



If nothing was added, then it probably isn't. If you have other tanks, cross contamination is very possible. However, you said that none of those had any disease either which would lead me to believe it's a bacterial infection.

If it turns out to be Brook, you'll probably start to see hanging strings of mucus and the fish near the surface or by a powerhead/overflow. I had one Anthias that wouldn't even move. Then she died. Most of mine have hanging poop looking strings when they get it too.



Sometimes you can hardly see it like with this clown.



Notice this domino damsel. Up near surface with the string.



Then later he was flushed out.




If you get Formalin, get this one.

 

[thatfishnerd]

Using clove oil will euthanize this fish, not anesthetize. IMO; there is no need to kill it just to get a skin scrape. You can sedate the fish using finquel/tricaine. Take your skin scrape. Put the fish in clean water and create movement over gills. Voila! Fish lives to fight another day.

My teacher has actually found and article about using clove oil to anesthetize a clownfish while trying to research a disease. I will try to get a link to the article for you guys. I have actually uses clove oil to successfully anesthetize a fish before, as long as the concentration is not too intense (250 ml/L+) the fish will not die, you have to remove the fish from the solution after it has fully lost equilibrium. Losing equilibrium is pretty much the fish going on its side or even belly up while still breathing. But you have to be careful when anesthetizing because this oil sticks to everything so you can't use anything that goes in your tank.
Thanks for all the input!!
~Sean

 

[Humblefish]

@Reefahholic That Domino Damsel also had/has intestinal parasites (white stringy poop).

@thatfishnerd I'd like to see that article. But I don't understand risking the fish's life when a safe, proven alternative like finquel is so readily available.

 

[Humblefish]

Anyone reading this thread might be interested in watching the video below. Not my video FYI; all credit goes to "alprazo":

[video=youtube;WwtGekrCbU4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwtGekrCbU4[/video]

 

[mainereefer]

for formalin, I use a product called "quickcure" you can get it at walmart for like $3

 

[Humblefish]

for formalin, I use a product called "quickcure" you can get it at walmart for like $3

Unfortunately, I think they stopped carrying it. Petco/smart may have it though. Have used Quick Cure many times to cure brook. It's a good product.

 

[Reefahholic]

Yeah, I think my clowns had Brook and a little of everything else. lol

 

[Reefahholic]

Humblefish, what did that guy do to the clown?

Obviously he sedated him, but why? I missed the story..

Did everything work out well? What was used and exactly how much? I see it was 16oz.

 

[Humblefish]

Humblefish, what did that guy do to the clown?

Obviously he sedated him, but why? I missed the story..

Did everything work out well? What was used and exactly how much? I see it was 16oz.

He was using the clown to demonstrate how to force feed a fish that refused or had become too weak to eat. The entire thread is here (hope I don't get in trouble): How to tube feed your fish - Reef Central Online CommunityHe describes the entire process further down in the thread. Alprazo is very knowledgeable about sharks, rays, and fish care & diseases; I consider him to be the "founding father" of CP. If he's not already on this board, I wish I could persuade him to come over.