Baffling: frags from a colony dying no matter what system I put them in

ScottB

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This was a small colony I bought 5 years ago described as "Indo raspberry milli". Pink & green flesh with grayish polyps, and great extension. It overgrew my display and about 6 months ago I removed it, busted it up into frags, and chucked the rest into my CaRx when Reborn ran out. You can see it in the reef pic just left and above the purple stylo.

Pieces went various places at the time (LFS, neighbor systems, etc); and all are doing fine. Less extension but more color. Growing.

Maybe 20 "misfit" pieces stayed in my frag system to "shape up". Frag system chemistry is very close to display water; PAR similar 300-400, flow a bit more (thus the reef tear down in DT).
ALK 8
Ca 500
Mg 1300
pH slightly lower in frag at 7.9 to 8.15
1.026 and 78 degrees
NO3 10ish
PO4 around .07

Current:
The "misfits" are one by one following the same pattern of RTN/STN from the base upwards. Very little PE. Brilliant colors although on the pastel side. I moved some to my LFS and some to my display after the troubles began. (Again, similar parameters. LFS nutrients a bit lower as we keep selling out the darn fish!). But the same thing keeps happening with this "misfit" batch no matter where they end up. Look fine for a week or three then bam.

Attachments:
Dying frags in frag
Living and dying frags in display
a "non-misfit" larger frag that is older and still kicking
Poor picture of colony before dismount (above and right of the purple stylo)
October ICP (not much to see here)

Flag:
In June, I had aefw in frag system but not display. Went on aggressive 6 day dip schedule. Added cleaners, peppermints, springeri (6), and 6 line to my existing melanurus. One liter KZ flatworm Stop (double strength). No flatworms since mid August from dips. Sadly 1 million pods killed in dip.

Coincidence?
This is kinda just forming in my mind as I type. I switched dips from Bayer (super gentle but so much work to keep safe) to KCl in July/August. I am dipping 17 racks per weekend. It really kills aefw, not just dislodge like Bayer (IME). All the other 80 tenuis, tort and milli frags are doing fine with that dip. Everything else in the display is doing fine as well.

I am just going to tag as many folks as I can recall with beautiful stick experience. Sorry for the long rant. Sorry to spam you all, but I need a new way to look at this. Thanks.

@Chaswood79
@jda
@mfollen
@FarmerTy
@bubbaque
@watchguy123
@Perry
@shane backer
@JCOLE
@SawCJack00
@therman

IMG-4788.JPG IMG-4790.JPG IMG-4789.JPG Just Before the Reef Rip.JPG
 

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SawCJack00

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History:
This was a small colony I bought 5 years ago described as "Indo raspberry milli". Pink & green flesh with grayish polyps, and great extension. It overgrew my display and about 6 months ago I removed it, busted it up into frags, and chucked the rest into my CaRx when Reborn ran out. You can see it in the reef pic just left and above the purple stylo.

Pieces went various places at the time (LFS, neighbor systems, etc); and all are doing fine. Less extension but more color. Growing.

Maybe 20 "misfit" pieces stayed in my frag system to "shape up". Frag system chemistry is very close to display water; PAR similar 300-400, flow a bit more (thus the reef tear down in DT).
ALK 8
Ca 500
Mg 1300
pH slightly lower in frag at 7.9 to 8.15
1.026 and 78 degrees
NO3 10ish
PO4 around .07

Current:
The "misfits" are one by one following the same pattern of RTN/STN from the base upwards. Very little PE. Brilliant colors although on the pastel side. I moved some to my LFS and some to my display after the troubles began. (Again, similar parameters. LFS nutrients a bit lower as we keep selling out the darn fish!). But the same thing keeps happening with this "misfit" batch no matter where they end up. Look fine for a week or three then bam.

Attachments:
Dying frags in frag
Living and dying frags in display
a "non-misfit" larger frag that is older and still kicking
Poor picture of colony before dismount (above and right of the purple stylo)
October ICP (not much to see here)

Flag:
In June, I had aefw in frag system but not display. Went on aggressive 6 day dip schedule. Added cleaners, peppermints, springeri (6), and 6 line to my existing melanurus. One liter KZ flatworm Stop (double strength). No flatworms since mid August from dips. Sadly 1 million pods killed in dip.

Coincidence?
This is kinda just forming in my mind as I type. I switched dips from Bayer (super gentle but so much work to keep safe) to KCl in July/August. I am dipping 17 racks per weekend. It really kills aefw, not just dislodge like Bayer (IME). All the other 80 tenuis, tort and milli frags are doing fine with that dip. Everything else in the display is doing fine as well.

I am just going to tag as many folks as I can recall with beautiful stick experience. Sorry for the long rant. Sorry to spam you all, but I need a new way to look at this. Thanks.

@Chaswood79
@jda
@mfollen
@FarmerTy
@bubbaque
@watchguy123
@Perry
@shane backer
@JCOLE
@SawCJack00
@therman

IMG-4788.JPG IMG-4790.JPG IMG-4789.JPG Just Before the Reef Rip.JPG
I have seen this type of thing happen with both Red Bugs and White Bugs. Have you tried an Interceptor treatment?
 
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ScottB

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I have seen this type of thing happen with both Red Bugs and White Bugs. Have you tried an Interceptor treatment?
Thanks Bill. I have not yet treated Interceptor but at this point I am open. I am aware of it but lack experience. Couple questions:
a) So KCl would not punish these guys? I look under light and magnification at my dip results. Just amphipods.
b) Do I need to remove any critters previous to in tank treatment?

I know a guy who knows a guy that can prescribe this but if you want to PM a contact I am all ears/eyes.
 
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ScottB

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Did you dip all of these frags a bunch? I found kcl incredibly harsh on some corals compared to Bayer - others did not care much. Routine dipping is hard enough. I don't have any other ideas.
Thank you.
Yes I did dip them every weekend from June 2 to last weekend. Minus once or twice for work or vacation. Yeah picking up the pattern perhaps. Before I moved any of the misfits (to DT or LFS) they would get an additional dip to confirm no worms.

KCl works so well on critters, but perhaps some acros just cannot hack it. That is the weird bit.
 
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ScottB

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Is this specific to that one coral or does this occur for other dipped frags or colonies in the display?
Really concentrated on all the frags of that single colony. Sure, I have had other frags not do well over the same span of time, but no RTN events like are happening with this one species.
 
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ScottB

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When was the Flat worms fully eradicated?
Took me about 9 weeks, so early to mid August was the last time I saw any come off during dip or baste. About a month ago, I quit Bayer and switched to KCl.

In the process of writing this all down, the introduction of KCl is really starting to stick out. I am going to drop that, and dose the tanks with Interceptor.

If anybody remembers a favorite thread on Interceptor, I will happily accept a link to it.
 
Budmans

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History:
This was a small colony I bought 5 years ago described as "Indo raspberry milli". Pink & green flesh with grayish polyps, and great extension. It overgrew my display and about 6 months ago I removed it, busted it up into frags, and chucked the rest into my CaRx when Reborn ran out. You can see it in the reef pic just left and above the purple stylo.

Pieces went various places at the time (LFS, neighbor systems, etc); and all are doing fine. Less extension but more color. Growing.

Maybe 20 "misfit" pieces stayed in my frag system to "shape up". Frag system chemistry is very close to display water; PAR similar 300-400, flow a bit more (thus the reef tear down in DT).
ALK 8
Ca 500
Mg 1300
pH slightly lower in frag at 7.9 to 8.15
1.026 and 78 degrees
NO3 10ish
PO4 around .07

Current:
The "misfits" are one by one following the same pattern of RTN/STN from the base upwards. Very little PE. Brilliant colors although on the pastel side. I moved some to my LFS and some to my display after the troubles began. (Again, similar parameters. LFS nutrients a bit lower as we keep selling out the darn fish!). But the same thing keeps happening with this "misfit" batch no matter where they end up. Look fine for a week or three then bam.

Attachments:
Dying frags in frag
Living and dying frags in display
a "non-misfit" larger frag that is older and still kicking
Poor picture of colony before dismount (above and right of the purple stylo)
October ICP (not much to see here)

Flag:
In June, I had aefw in frag system but not display. Went on aggressive 6 day dip schedule. Added cleaners, peppermints, springeri (6), and 6 line to my existing melanurus. One liter KZ flatworm Stop (double strength). No flatworms since mid August from dips. Sadly 1 million pods killed in dip.

Coincidence?
This is kinda just forming in my mind as I type. I switched dips from Bayer (super gentle but so much work to keep safe) to KCl in July/August. I am dipping 17 racks per weekend. It really kills aefw, not just dislodge like Bayer (IME). All the other 80 tenuis, tort and milli frags are doing fine with that dip. Everything else in the display is doing fine as well.

I am just going to tag as many folks as I can recall with beautiful stick experience. Sorry for the long rant. Sorry to spam you all, but I need a new way to look at this. Thanks.

@Chaswood79
@jda
@mfollen
@FarmerTy
@bubbaque
@watchguy123
@Perry
@shane backer
@JCOLE
@SawCJack00
@therman

IMG-4788.JPG IMG-4790.JPG IMG-4789.JPG Just Before the Reef Rip.JPG
Maybe you don't have very sterile Bone cutters that happened to me when I used scissors Melted from the base up.
 

SawCJack00

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Thanks Bill. I have not yet treated Interceptor but at this point I am open. I am aware of it but lack experience. Couple questions:
a) So KCl would not punish these guys? I look under light and magnification at my dip results. Just amphipods.
b) Do I need to remove any critters previous to in tank treatment?

I know a guy who knows a guy that can prescribe this but if you want to PM a contact I am all ears/eyes.
There is a thread on here about white bugs, and they got rid of them using a double dose of Interceptor. It will kill your pods but you can re-seed afterwards. From what I understand small shrimp a crabs may also be affected but larger ones are usually fine. I tried to find the thread again, but I couldn't...
 
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ScottB

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Maybe you don't have very sterile Bone cutters that happened to me when I used scissors Melted from the base up.
Hmmm. Hadn't thought about that. I use them for everything -- particularly vermetids these days. I just fresh water rinse and dry afterward.
 
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ScottB

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There is a thread on here about white bugs, and they got rid of them using a double dose of Interceptor. It will kill your pods but you can re-seed afterwards. From what I understand small shrimp a crabs may also be affected but larger ones are usually fine. I tried to find the thread again, but I couldn't...
I think I was following that thread for a bit. Will google it up.
 
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ScottB

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Have you ever tried a sponge power?
I have not tried that KZ product. Went through a couple liters of KZ Flatworm Stop and one bottle of KZ Coral boost.

You've noticed a difference with it?
 
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ScottB

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The trend continues with frags of that singular species. Older transplants are fine. My thinking is shifting from KCl intolerance to a parasite that is (for now) fixated on this species. I haven't dipped in almost 3 weeks, and the same pattern of bottom up STN is still happening.

For the last several weeks of dipping, all I got off was tons of pods, large and small. I have a well lit lense I use to look at the frags and the dip water. There are no black or red bugs. So I guess that leaves white bugs, and there are lots of those. I just thought they were good guys.

I keep seeing references to Dr. Gs. Do I go for that or straight to Interceptor?
 
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ScottB

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Is this specific to that one coral or does this occur for other dipped frags or colonies in the display?
Sorry I think I missed this post. It is specific to that one particular species. It was a huge colony that I removed from my display and chopped up. Some of the early, large sections I moved on to other systems and they are fine.

The middle sections of the colony got sawed up and fragged into "misfits" that I was going to let grow out. Towards the end of my aefw treatment they started to RTN/STN from the bottom up. I continue to lose 1 or 2 a day. The ones I moved over to my display seem to be holding up better.

I dipped another STN set yesterday (this time in Melafix). There was nothing visible in the mix water except large pods. I took a sample from the bottom of the dip tray and scoped it.

One video at 400X the other at 1000X. Anybody wanna guess at these very small critters? See anything evil?

I hate the thought of nuking my pods but think I will have to.
 

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Pdash

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Sorry I think I missed this post. It is specific to that one particular species. It was a huge colony that I removed from my display and chopped up. Some of the early, large sections I moved on to other systems and they are fine.

The middle sections of the colony got sawed up and fragged into "misfits" that I was going to let grow out. Towards the end of my aefw treatment they started to RTN/STN from the bottom up. I continue to lose 1 or 2 a day. The ones I moved over to my display seem to be holding up better.

I dipped another STN set yesterday (this time in Melafix). There was nothing visible in the mix water except large pods. I took a sample from the bottom of the dip tray and scoped it.

One video at 400X the other at 1000X. Anybody wanna guess at these very small critters? See anything evil?

I hate the thought of nuking my pods but think I will have to.
Have you seen white/red bugs crawling on your coal's tissue? They should be visible if they are there, maybe take a video and watch for them crawling around.
 
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