Battling GHA with a refugium

[MarshallB]

I need some help from the vets around here.

My 125 gallon has been up for 2 years come june. I've had GHA for going on probably 8 months. At first I tried additive solutions then realized those caused other problems just as annoying as GHA. For the past 4-5 months I've pretty much left it alone aside from pulling tuffs of GHA out when I can.

I've always had a refugium, but i've had pretty hard luck on getting much to thrive down there other than GHA. I've changed lights, I've added flow, removed flow, nothing really changes the results. Whatever I've put down there just withers off and pollutes the tank. I've sank quite a bit of money into it since clean algae is not cheap.

I currently have 6 red spike spheres ( Gracilari Tikvahiae ) and they seem to be surviving, mostly because I'm able to clean the GHA off of them so they dont get choked out. I've let the GHA just continue to grow in the fuge as well because it seems to thrive there above anything else. Every time i've tried to clear out the GHA in the fuge, it just increase the GHA growth in the DT and then whatever macro I have in the fuge just dies off.

Standard tank parameters.
salinity 1.026
PH 8-8.2
DKH 9.5-9.6
Calc 440
Mag 1450
Nitrate 4-6ppm
Phosphate 0.00-0.05 ( Aim to keep it at around .03-.06 ).

This is a frustrating battle. Phosphates bottom out which I assume helps kill the refugium ( Not always the case, i've had phosphate up to .12 and things still didn't grow well in the refugium ). So I've actually been dosing phosphate up to .02 when the fuge light is on. Issue is the GHA in the DT has not receded, reduced, or even weakened. It's hard attached to the rocks, Doesn't matter how much I remove by hand, new patches appear within a week. Tang gang, 3 tuxedo urchins, and a lawn mower blenny just seem to ignore it, even the new short patches. If I keep phosphates from bottoming then the GHA just explodes in the DT.

I try to feed the fish near the end of the DT light cycle to keep the DT as free of phosphates as I can to choke out the GHA. I feed a home made mixture of chopped seafood with added vitamins and amino acids.

I'm just not sure what to do anymore. It does not seem like the refugium is out competing the DT. I only run my DT lights for 8 hours, the refugium is on for 18 hours with a proper fuge light that gets about 300 par spread throughout the refugium. I dose chaeto grow every week as well.

There's just been no progress for months and its extremely frustrating. Any suggestions or advice would be greatly appreciated.

​

 

[SPS2020]

R2R GHA Search Results

Lots of info on R2R on how to battle GHA. It's been tough, but I am now winning. You have to pull the GHA manually every.single.day. You aren't seeing PO4 because it is in the GHA; it's like a battery.

An algae turf scrubber could help as well. I have both fuge and ATS. The GHA is taking off in the ATS.

 

[SPS2020]

What are you feeding and how much? Use frozen instead of pellets. Reduce frequency\amount, but don't deprive.

Reduce white lights and duration. All this is in other threads, but thought I'd throw it in here as well.

 

[MarshallB]

I've read the other threads. As i mentioned previously I feed frozen chopped sea food, no pellets.

Every thread is a lot of assumptions and 'this worked for me' and plenty or replies that specific actions didn't work. Most other threads do not include a refugium, in fact starting a refugium is one of the most common suggestions to battle GHA.

Yes, I pull out GHA daily. It's not possible to pull out every thread of GHA in my 125 due to crevices, but as I said regardless of how much is removed, more pops up. There is clearly a lack of phosphate in the tank because it kills off macro algae in the refugium. The GHA in the DT should be weakening enough to easily remove, yet its still rooted strongly. Again, I dose phosphate at night to keep the refugium alive and try to minimize feedings during the day. I try to feed later in the light cycle to try and limit the phosphate in the DT during peak lighting hours.

Either way, I might just have to go with killing the lights for awhile. Is there a minimal amount of time the lights need to be on to keep coral healthy? I'd rather do short duration lighting than a total blackout for periods of time.

 

[SPS2020]

My refugium did not help with my GHA either. The ATS seems to be doing its job so far...although it is a new addition (6 weeks) and I have not harvested yet. Turbo Aquatics L2 for reference.

In my 100g, I have six tuxedos, over 500 cerith snails, turbo snails, red and blue legged hermits, bristletooth tang and a yellow tang as CUC.

Food grade peroxide (>= 12%) at 1ml per gallon total per day. Spot administer via a syringe will kill the GHA. However, you say that it grows back, so that is not a solution.

You may consider an ICP and N-DOC to give a better indication of things.

Is your tank near any window or outside light source? Reducing light duration can help (esp white), but I can't speak to how much you can limit with your coral. I have all Acropora, so that really wasn't an option for me.

I've heard high magnesium helps to loosen the roots of GHA. However, that really didn't make a difference for mine. My Mag is generally around 1500.

I think what is contained in other threads is relevant and you will have to mix-and-match to determine the right combination. At least, that is what is working for me...it is not completely gone in my tank yet.

 

[djf91]

Have you tried any aggressive Caulerpa species in the refugium?

 

[\m/reefsnmetal\m/]

I just came out of a long battle with GHA. I'll throw out some thoughts and ideas based on my experience and the info you provided. The first thing I would consider is the food source, your additives, and amount of food going into the tank. I cut my tank down to 2-3 cubes of frozen per day; usually a combination of brine, mysis, and spirulina. Just enough to keep the fish happy, but without any other additives to increase the waste produced. Obviously 2-3 cubes may not be enough for your fish but you get the point anyway. I would quit dosing chaeto grow and phosphate as its also going to feed the gha. I don't think it matters when you feed the fish and I don't think you can control whether phosphate is in the DT Vs the fuge. I'm pretty sure once it's in the water it goes throughout the whole system. If GHA is all that you can grow in the fuge then let it grow. Keep up with the manual removal and let that stuff go wild in the fuge, it's a start. If you don't have giant mexican turbos then I would add like 10. What else are you using for filtration?

 

[KonradTO]

Any updates?
I think that you are blasting your fuge with light. Macros do not need that much light to grow, I have a fluval led strip kept at 60% and my macros thrive there. Especially red algae do not like too much light

 

[KonradTO]

Any updates?
I think that you are blasting your fuge with light. Macros do not need that much light to grow, I have a fluval led strip kept at 60% and my macros thrive there. Especially red algae do not like too much light

Also, I was/am in the same situation with GHA. Do not listen to the "you have nutrients, they get sucked by the GHA, that's why you don't read it" thing. Its nonsense. If it gets absorbed by GHA it is not in the water and it will not go back in the water unless you do a blackout. I have the impression that gha is very good at intercepting the small particles of food in its wires and have a constant fertilization source in this way.
The alternative is ending up like me. For getting rid of GHA I got myself dinos.

 

[undermind]

The alternative is ending up like me. For getting rid of GHA I got myself dinos.

Gah! That stinks.

So... I know it gets old seeing people say "you have nutrients, they get sucked by the GHA, that's why you don't read it". But are you saying that because you think @MarshallB should continue to keep adding phosphates?

To me, it just seems wrong adding phosphates when you're plagued with GHA. I would stop adding phosphate immediately and feed as light as I possibly can.

Also, I would direct all my GHA growing power to the refugium. Screw the chaeto and just make it a GHA paradise. Using a red/pink glow light meant for plants will really appeal to the hair algae. And by creating the ultimate environment for it to grow in the GHA refugium, it's going to outcompete the GHA trying to grow in the DT. Or favor the refugium at least.

Obviously an ATS will accomplish the same thing, but I think a decent sized refugium with a good plant light can grow an insane amount of GHA and outperform an ATS.

Then there's fluconazole.

 

[KonradTO]

Gah! That stinks.

So... I know it gets old seeing people say "you have nutrients, they get sucked by the GHA, that's why you don't read it". But are you saying that because you think @MarshallB should continue to keep adding phosphates?

To me, it just seems wrong adding phosphates when you're plagued with GHA. I would stop adding phosphate immediately and feed as light as I possibly can.

Also, I would direct all my GHA growing power to the refugium. Screw the chaeto and just make it a GHA paradise. Using a red/pink glow light meant for plants will really appeal to the hair algae. And by creating the ultimate environment for it to grow in the GHA refugium, it's going to outcompete the GHA trying to grow in the DT. Or favor the refugium at least.

Obviously an ATS will accomplish the same thing, but I think a decent sized refugium with a good plant light can grow an insane amount of GHA and outperform an ATS.

Then there's fluconazole.

No what I mean is that if you read 0 phos with an hanna checker you have 0 +/- 0.03 phos, that's it. The fact that you can get algae growing with 0 phos means only that as soon as some phos get in the water they are sequestered by the algae. It is the same as having corals absorbing phos, but no one says that when you have low nutrients it is actually not true because your corals are absorbing the nutrients. Unless you find a way to kill all algae at the same time, then you have a nutrient spike.
So when you read zero and people suggest to keep using GFO it is a bad idea because you will never starve algae without killing corals, they are just better at surviving in low nutrient environments and have very fast reproduction rates..

 

[undermind]

No what I mean is that if you read 0 phos with an hanna checker you have 0 +/- 0.03 phos, that's it. The fact that you can get algae growing with 0 phos means only that as soon as some phos get in the water they are sequestered by the algae. It is the same as having corals absorbing phos, but no one says that when you have low nutrients it is actually not true because your corals are absorbing the nutrients. Unless you find a way to kill all algae at the same time, then you have a nutrient spike.
So when you read zero and people suggest to keep using GFO it is a bad idea because you will never starve algae without killing corals, they are just better at surviving in low nutrient environments and have very fast reproduction rates..

Good points