Bean animal overflow for first time...please advise.

Albertan22

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Im designing my sump bean animal style for a 225 gallon and was considering a 2000 GPH pump. From my research the hole in the primary is not correct and your pump is way too big for your tank. Ill be curious to see what happens with your lower flow pump.

Ill add...I thought the small hole in the backup was supposed to have an air line connected to it and secured at a specific depth in the overflow (not sure where/what depth yet), no?
The depth for the air line would be near or just below the emergency drain, it is so if the water gets above it the first goes full siphon and “flushes” your overflow. The hole on top could serve the same purpose.
 
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zalick

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Glad you got the drains working right! I emailed Synergy asking why they modified beans setup.

Your return pump will be pushing about 2000gph. That's WAY to much for that tank IMO and will probably cause noise in the weir.

You can restrict the output of the pump with a valve. Don't ever restrict the input.

I like my returns at about 3x tank volume.

If you have a valve after the output, adjust it to slow down return and see if that helps.
 

Mattman1977

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Simple cheap solution is to add a T with a gate valve in your return pump line with pvc leading back into the sump. This way you can detour some of water back into the sump and slow down what’s going to your dt. Later you can use this line for reactors or the likes.

agreed according to beananimal design there’s no siphon hole in primary. But then again all three outlets are at the same level in his original design.

good luck and happy reefing
Matt
 

zalick

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agreed according to beananimal design there’s no siphon hole in primary. But then again all three outlets are at the same level in his original design.
True but a bit deceptive and what gets people mixed up. Although they are all the same, the input of the primary is lower than the bend in the backup. This difference is what allows you to get a full siphon and then adjust the gate valve so just a drop goes down the backup.
 

Mattman1977

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True but a bit deceptive and what gets people mixed up. Although they are all the same, the input of the primary is lower than the bend in the backup. This difference is what allows you to get a full siphon and then adjust the gate valve so just a drop goes down the backup.
Oh yes in a external overflow box design the primary is lower. My modified 150gal had traditional overflow box with primary and secondary both identical, minus the secondary having the airline of course. Ran silent. Always assumed the airline is what caused the primary to keep full suction and the secondary having a trickle. Not arguing the science of it just what I’ve experienced.

I agree his issues is probably the primary getting air and to much turnover. Stick you something over the air hole on the primary and see if you can tune it with the gate valve.

God I love this hobby so much tinkering and so many variables that the conversations go on and on.

Matt
 

zalick

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God I love this hobby so much tinkering and so many variables that the conversations go on and on.

Matt
Yup! I especially like the tinkering with plumbing. PVC is so easy to work with and modify. I have two giant totes in my garage full of all sorts of PVC fittings and pieces that have been put on, taken off, put on etc..
 

Mattman1977

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Yup! I especially like the tinkering with plumbing. PVC is so easy to work with and modify. I have two giant totes in my garage full of all sorts of PVC fittings and pieces that have been put on, taken off, put on etc..
This drives my wife crazy. I have 2 totes of pvc, 1 tote of assorted hoses and couple totes of powerheads, return pumps, heaters and the sort.

not to take away from the original post. Beananimal overflow is amazing just have to get the kinks worked out. Keep us posted on your progress

Matt
 

W1ngz

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Yup! I especially like the tinkering with plumbing. PVC is so easy to work with and modify. I have two giant totes in my garage full of all sorts of PVC fittings and pieces that have been put on, taken off, put on etc..
The most fun I had with my current system was exactly this, I had it turned around backwards and filled with tap water for almost a month so I could play with the plumbing, overflow and sump.
 

Ross B Reef'n

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Starting from completely open, close the full siphon line gate valve in a VERY SMALL increment and then wait a few minutes. The height of the water in your tank is actually adjusting. Keep doing this until both lines find balance.

If your emergency starts taking on water before this point, the elbow at the top of your secondary is too tall. Cut the length of the standpipe 1/8 inch or smaller and start the process over.
 

lapin

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Here's where I'm at right this second. The main drain is quiet and a full siphon. The secondary drain however, is still gurgling away. And there are lots of bubbles....lots and lots of bubbles.
When I start closing down the valve to get the secondary drain covered it diverts alot of the flow from the primary line and honestly I feel like the secondary is so far above the primary, that I might have water in the emergency drain.

So I've been messing with this all morning. I found a video of a Shadow overflow working silently. If I close the valve on the main drain to get the overflow as full as it is on the video, there is crazy turbulent flow down the secondary drain with lots of bubbles.

I don't think the pump I have is adjustable (Sicce syncra adv 9.0) however, I have ball valves on each side of the return lines. I think my instinct is correct in that if I close down the ball valve it will reduce flow to the DT.
The pump is rated at 2500 gph and the overflow is as well. I'm totally at a loss as to what to do.

Here is a video of the sump and drains and one of the overflow as they are running right now.
Yes there are holes in the top of both the U pipe on the primary and the secondary.
Each drain empties independently into the sump.
The secondary drain is deeper(not by alot) into the sump than the main. In the overflow box the secondary is taller than the primary. Is that what you mean? Or does the drain into the sump on the primary need to be deeper than the secondary?

I removed the U on the primary, now there is just a trickle down the secondary and a full siphon on the primary. But it is soooooo noisy.

This is a Reef Synergy Shadow Overflow and all of the pieces in it I ordered from Synergy Reef, so I am assuming they sent the right pieces. As I understand it, the hole on the top of the primary will allow a full siphon if it is covered, which it is.

I'm kinda frustrated and done for the night. I don't know what else to do.
I see a few things that will make noise
If your over flow box is not full enough to cover the drains (from tank to box) you are getting bubbles as visible in the video.

The amount of air coming out of the main drain in the sump will make noise (your video). There should be no air once it gets to full siphon and all the air is purged out of that line. The "U" with hole for the main drain could be sucking air if not underwater. If it is underwater it can still suck air if a vortex is formed. The reason for the hole is so it purges air on start up. This hole is really not needed. If you have enough flow going down that pipe and the pipe is not too far underwater the air will be forced out.
A weak pump with low flow is why I think they have the hole to cover everyones setup.

Here are my suggestions:

Set it up so the emergency is the highest.
The main is the lowest.
The secondary should be high enough so the water will cover its hole just before it goes down the emergency.

Open the valve to the main drain all the way.

Decrease your pumps output by restricting the flow back into the tank with those valves on the return lines.
How much? We will decide the final amount once we get the bean to be silient. For now maybe dial it back about 1/4 to a 1/2. You should have no water going down the secondary. If there is, then the secondary is too low or the primary is too high, or your pump is still to strong. Once no water is going down the secondary its time to dial back the main drain slowly until you get just a trickle coming down the secondary.

It should be silient.

If this works then we can go on the the next part

Cheers
 
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zalick

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I'll give synergy an A+ for prompt customer service!

I emailed last night asking about the purpose of the extra hole. Their response is below. I've been running beananimals for 7 years and never encountered the issue they described nor have I heard of that happening to others. I read the entire original beananimal thread silent and safe overflow. Both parts. Thousands of posts and didn't see the issue raised there either. Doesn't mean it does not exist though!

Seems to me it's a solution for a very very narrow set of circumstances.


OP - let us know how it's going! I know you can get this running silently and be just as amazed as I was the first time I got it running with no noise!

--------

Thank you for the inquiry.

Our overflow uses full siphon. It is not traditional bean animal. It may look similar, but it is not. Not putting a hole in both u-pipes will cause an airlock in the primary if the pumps shut off and you will get surging.

Thank you for reaching out,

Vanessa
 

W1ngz

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I've seen that happen before, but it had more to do with the depth of the outlet below the sump water line than with the overflow fittings. It solves the problem in a way they can control directly, rather than having to give the user additional direction and support.

Either way, airlocking isn't the OPs problem, it's noise and excess flow.
 

Mattman1977

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@markysgirl in your sump how far below the water is the primary and secondary lines? When I first set my beananimal up I was around 2-3” and had all kinds of noise. Cut it back to around 1” under and cleared it right up.

Matt
 
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Rather than mess with this all day, I'm waiting for a new much smaller pump to show up later. I'm really hoping that solves the problem. From everything I learned over the last couple of days it does make sense that too much flow is pushing water over the threshold on the secondary, which is why I'm seeing so much flow from that drain right at the point where the primary becomes a siphon.
I'll keep you guys posted after I change out the pump.
@markysgirl in your sump how far below the water is the primary and secondary lines? When I first set my beananimal up I was around 2-3” and had all kinds of noise. Cut it back to around 1” under and cleared it right up.

Matt
The primary is 3 or so inches under the water and the secondary is 2ish?
 

Mattman1977

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Try shorting them to around a 1” or so below the water line. Made all the difference in the world. I would run my return pump wide open and could barely hear it.

Matt
 
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I was going to wait and connect the the smaller pump until tomorrow but I couldn't help myself.
I got a Sicce silent 2.0.
I think this pump might be too small. I have it turned all the way up and I can barely feel anything coming out of the return in the tank at all. The sump doesn't even look like it's moving hardly at all.
The overflow however is MUCH quieter. I can only hear it making kind of a dripping noise if I stand right next to it.
I still don't think it's working properly as the primary is uncovered and not a full siphon. I think I will reach out to Synergy Reef and see if they can help me.
Does anyone see an immediate problem with the flow being so slow? I have some pods and phyto on the way for the refugium as the cycle is going really well. I can order a larger pump but would really not like to buy a bunch of pumps, so I really want to figure out the best pump for my system. Any ideas about pumps would be great!
I'm fine with the system running slow for a little bit it it won't hurt anything.
Again thanks for all of your help.
 

W1ngz

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I was going to wait and connect the the smaller pump until tomorrow but I couldn't help myself.
Isn't that always the way? :D
Maybe ask around if someone in a local club or on here is nearby with a Sicce 3.0 they can spare for a day or two. If the flow through the system is too low, then filtration will be a little less efficient. I think too low will be better than too much though, at least all your water isn't rushing through your sump before it can get skimmed.
 

zalick

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You can use your larger pump and just use a ball valve/gate valve on the return line to dial it back. That's what I do.
 
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