Bellus Angel Diagnosis

[W31Olds]

All, I received this Bellus Angel and a Spotted Mandarin about 10 days ago and the Bellus looks to have lost color intensity and showing white dusting/specs on the body starting about 3 days ago. The Mandarin looks fine. Both are eating like pigs multiple times a day (bloodworms and Sprirulina Brine). I thought it might be velvet but her eyes are clear and its been 3 days so maybe ich. I don't see any scratching flashing so not sure what the diagnosis is. I started Copperpower 2 days ago @ 2.5 ppm (Hanna). This fish is super active and alert with no decline that I can notice so I'm puzzled at this point.

 

[vetteguy53081]

All, I received this Bellus Angel and a Spotted Mandarin about 10 days ago and the Bellus looks to have lost color intensity and showing white dusting/specs on the body starting about 3 days ago. The Mandarin looks fine. Both are eating like pigs multiple times a day (bloodworms and Sprirulina Brine). I thought it might be velvet but her eyes are clear and its been 3 days so maybe ich. I don't see any scratching flashing so not sure what the diagnosis is. I started Copperpower 2 days ago @ 2.5 ppm (Hanna). This fish is super active and alert with no decline that I can notice so I'm puzzled at this point.

This fish looks to have velvet disease. Coppersafe which you just started is an effective treatment and takes a couple of days to start working. With velvet, fish will scratch body against hard objects, lethargic behavior, Loss of appetite and weight loss, Rapid, labored breathing, Fins clamped against the body, and typically stay at the surface of the water, or remain in a position where a steady flow of water is present in the aquarium.
Ich always shows spots at first. Utilize coppersafe for a FULL 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) monitored by a reliable Copper Test kit such as Hanna Brand- No API brand. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

All, I received this Bellus Angel and a Spotted Mandarin about 10 days ago and the Bellus looks to have lost color intensity and showing white dusting/specs on the body starting about 3 days ago. The Mandarin looks fine. Both are eating like pigs multiple times a day (bloodworms and Sprirulina Brine). I thought it might be velvet but her eyes are clear and its been 3 days so maybe ich. I don't see any scratching flashing so not sure what the diagnosis is. I started Copperpower 2 days ago @ 2.5 ppm (Hanna). This fish is super active and alert with no decline that I can notice so I'm puzzled at this point.

Looks like ich to me. The symptoms line up also - the time frame at 3 days, mandarin not being affected, fish still eating, visible spots, no rapid breathing. Copper Power would be the way to go for either disease.

 

[W31Olds]

I am leaning towards ich as after doing some research on velvet as I think the Bellus would be showing serious signs of decline. I also just noticed that she does not have cloudy eyes which seems to be a common symptom with velvet. When should I expect to see improvement with the Copperpower treatment? Either way, i'm going to run the full course of copper.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I am leaning towards ich as after doing some research on velvet as I think the Bellus would be showing serious signs of decline. I also just noticed that she does not have cloudy eyes which seems to be a common symptom with velvet. When should I expect to see improvement with the Copperpower treatment? Either way, i'm going to run the full course of copper.

Copper Power is mild, but that means it is also slow to work. I've seen it take three days to show any slowing of symptoms, and five days to begin to show remission.

The cloudy eyes may be from ich, but it could also be from flukes (multiple diseases are unfortunately quite possible).

 

[W31Olds]

Mr's. Hemdel/Vetteguy, 2 part question, I lost the Bellus that I had about 2 weeks in QT. It was eating great until the last 2 days then stopped and was breathing heavy. I was treating with copperpower thinking it was ich with no improvement. After it passed, I used 5X magnification and noticed quite a few small critters crawling on its body so suspect it may have had flukes. I would think the copperpower would have killed any invertebrates so that why I was thinking flukes. My question is, how do live flukes react once a fish has passed and could I see them using 5x magnification? I froze the fish and will get a Microscope in the near future. My other question is about Quarantine. I have 2 Tangs in a separate 40 Gallon that began on Dec 19th. They had flukes which I successfully treated with Prazipro. I have been observing them for ich, etc. since the beginning and have seen no evidence of anything else. I periodically run a 25 watt UV with low flow on this 40 gallon QT Tank so did not perform a copper regimen. Since Tangs seem to be ich magnets I'm thinking I should be ok to transfer them to my DT sometime this week or would you guys recommend turning the UV off and running Copperpower? Both seem very healthy and the Purple Tang is growing like a weed.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Mr's. Hemdel/Vetteguy, 2 part question, I lost the Bellus that I had about 2 weeks in QT. It was eating great until the last 2 days then stopped and was breathing heavy. I was treating with copperpower thinking it was ich with no improvement. After it passed, I used 5X magnification and noticed quite a few small critters crawling on its body so suspect it may have had flukes. I would think the copperpower would have killed any invertebrates so that why I was thinking flukes. My question is, how do live flukes react once a fish has passed and could I see them using 5x magnification? I froze the fish and will get a Microscope in the near future. My other question is about Quarantine. I have 2 Tangs in a separate 40 Gallon that began on Dec 19th. They had flukes which I successfully treated with Prazipro. I have been observing them for ich, etc. since the beginning and have seen no evidence of anything else. I periodically run a 25 watt UV with low flow on this 40 gallon QT Tank so did not perform a copper regimen. Since Tangs seem to be ich magnets I'm thinking I should be ok to transfer them to my DT sometime this week or would you guys recommend turning the UV off and running Copperpower? Both seem very healthy and the Purple Tang is growing like a weed.

Sorry to hear about the Bellus, they can be delicate.

Copper Power and Coppersafe really don't impact flukes.

Finding living things on a deceased fish is tricky: if the fish has been dead for more than an hour or so, all of the flukes will have dropped off. If the fish has been dead, say 6+ hours, protozoans and worms in the tank will start to move onto the fish to feed on it.

Were you using 5x magnification total, or is that multiplied by the other objective? For example, a simple hand lens might be 5x. A microscope with a 5x eyepiece, but with a 10x objective, would be 50x total. Flukes can be seen under 5x, they'll look like flattened worms. Protozoans are smaller, and are usually oval shaped.

I would always run fish through copper - there are just too many cases where a chronic case of ich got moved into the DT on an untreated fish. 30 days at 2.25 is best, but since you've had these fish for a bit, you might get away with 2.25 ppm for 14 days, but remove the fish while they are still in copper in order to kill off any tomites/theronts that might be left.

 

[W31Olds]

The device I used was a 5X handheld magnifier with a built in led light ring. The bellus wasn't gone for more than an hour or 2 before I pulled it and looked it over. Sounds like I need a microscope and verify it right away but it's good to know the Flukes drop off shortly after the fish dies. The reason I started to suspect gill flukes was a contributing factor is I also had a spotted Mandarin in the same tank and he stopped feeding and was flashing around his gills. I pulled him and treated him with Prazipro 2 days ago and now he is eating frozen brine and worms again. I will run my Tangs through a copperpower treatment with no UV starting today.