Bio-spira works great

[brandon429]

Prediction

the delayed start cycle (waiting at all) dies totally in reefing within five years due to advancements in probiotics for cycling.

it’s all about disease prep, if we want to be ahead of the curve.


is this bad for reefing? fiber internet was bad for the existence of dialup


Moore’s law of cycling in effect

 

[brandon429]

Ike

i just read a post where bottle bac ability and liferock ability was in doubt, your thread is the best for addressing that.

 

[brandon429]

a bump

for fish-in cyclers getting harshed. this fine reef helps to balance perspective.

 

[andrewey]

Prediction

the delayed start cycle (waiting at all) dies totally in reefing within five years due to advancements in probiotics for cycling.

it’s all about disease prep, if we want to be ahead of the curve.


is this bad for reefing? fiber internet was bad for the existence of dialup


Moore’s law of cycling in effect

Could you explain what you mean by saying "probiotics for cycling"?

OP- congrats on your reef

 

[Arabyps]

My new build was with live sand, dry rock and the BRS 4-month (lights off, fish in) cycle (currently 3 months into it). I used Fritz Turbostart 900 to seed the tank with beneficial bacteria. After adding the bacteria, I waited I day (do not use a skimmer yet) and added the fish (2 clowns, 1 wrasse and I royal gramma). Many more added since. Never any ammonia or nitrite. Check my build in member tanks:

Build Thread - My journey starts

I want to share with the community my new reef tank build. It is my first serious venture into the hobby and I want to take things slowly. Accordingly, I am following the BRS 4-month cycle with lights out, fish in...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[andrewey]

@brandon429, I don't know if you saw my last message, but I'd love to learn more about what you meant by probiotics in relation to cycling an aquarium?

 

[Piscean_Introvert]

I definitely wish I would have seen this thread early on during my research, I used the Microbacter QuickCycle kit and had reading after I followed the instructions to the T, and then dumped the entire bottle of nitrifying bacteria in and still no movement. After two weeks of no movement, I used a the 8oz bottle of Bio-Spira on my 55g (not enough) but quickly saw movement in ammonia decreasing, and nitrites and nitrates increasing.

 

[brandon429]

Hey how are we here Ike

 

[shoelaceike]

Hey how are we here Ike

Same old....would do it this way again

 

[brandon429]

What great long term tracking, the species that comprise your biofilter has alternated past the original dosing and now matches what your frags have imported

 

[Steven27]

I started my fish tank on Tuesday and on Friday I added bio spira. I took some water samples today and these where my parameters. Where in the cycle do these parameters indicate thanks in advance!

 

[brandon429]

your cycle is a different type of cycle than Ike used.





half that rock looks live, as in wet from a pet store? Is a portion of that rock live with coralline and living attachments on it brought home wet from another tank? It matters because those rocks will already be cycled if so, bottle bac isn’t used in wet rock starts

 

[Steven27]

since there’s no fish in the system, we can’t tell anything by the test posted, this thread is for studying instant bioload carry. That reef above has no bioloading to relate it to Ike’s instant bioload carry tank

your cycle is a different type of cycle than Ike used.





half that rock looks live, as in wet from a pet store? Is a portion of that rock live with coralline and living attachments on it brought home wet from another tank? It matters because those rocks will already be cycled if so, bottle bac isn’t used in wet rock starts. If you want to proof the tank for being ready you’d add a tiny bit of cycling ammonia as a test load, only the amount to change the ammonia picture above to slight green, .5 ppm, not two ppm. Take a second pic and post of the slight bare change to .5
Here’s a pic of someone’s second test, barely driven up from zero, not hard green:


then a third pic in 24 hours after that one.


we are watching to see if the third ammonia pic goes back towards your first picture above, before the dose.

The three part ammonia pic will show if the system is ready to carry bioload.

***if those are moved over live rocks from a pet store, wet when installed, they’re already cycled you wouldn’t need to test dose anything. Moved over live rocks show up cycled they don’t uncycle from having been relocated. Ike’s thread here was an all dry rock start, carried only by bottled bacteria

Yes from a pet store half of the rock is live rock and the other half is dry rock. I have ordered some ammonium chloride. I appreciate the response.

 

[Steven27]

Yes from a pet store half of the rock is live rock and the other half is dry rock. I have ordered some ammonium chloride. I appreciate the response.

since there’s no fish in the system, we can’t tell anything by the test posted, this thread is for studying instant bioload carry. That reef above has no bioloading to relate it to Ike’s instant bioload carry tank

your cycle is a different type of cycle than Ike used.





half that rock looks live, as in wet from a pet store? Is a portion of that rock live with coralline and living attachments on it brought home wet from another tank? It matters because those rocks will already be cycled if so, bottle bac isn’t used in wet rock starts. If you want to proof the tank for being ready you’d add a tiny bit of cycling ammonia as a test load, only the amount to change the ammonia picture above to slight green, .5 ppm, not two ppm. Take a second pic and post of the slight bare change to .5
Here’s a pic of someone’s second test, barely driven up from zero, not hard green:


then a third pic in 24 hours after that one.


we are watching to see if the third ammonia pic goes back towards your first picture above, before the dose.

The three part ammonia pic will show if the system is ready to carry bioload.

***if those are moved over live rocks from a pet store, wet when installed, they’re already cycled you wouldn’t need to test dose anything. Moved over live rocks show up cycled they don’t uncycle from having been relocated. Ike’s thread here was an all dry rock start, carried only by bottled bacteria

I added bio spira on Friday how long will the bacteria survive?

 

[brandon429]

We dont add ammonia to live rock setups per above, thats only for dry rock setups you did a skip cycle reef. It’s done, it’s ready, the dry portions don’t matter because the live rock portion masks the dry rock inability, this cycle is done

adding ammonia burns the live rock animals, don’t add any

since this is a live rock skip cycle, you are done cycling and biospira was never needed.

 

[brandon429]

let’s resume discussion on your thread since it’s a 100% different cycle than Ikes

 

[Steven27]

We dont add ammonia to live rock setups per above, thats only for dry rock setups you did a skip cycle reef. It’s done, it’s ready, the dry portions don’t matter because the live rock portion masks the dry rock inability, this cycle is done

adding ammonia burns the live rock animals, don’t add any

since this is a live rock skip cycle, you are done cycling and biospira was never needed.

Okay thank you I really appreciate it. I’m relatively new to this I’ve had several freshwater aquariums in the past. Is this a new process of cycling tanks or has it been around and people just ignored it and cycled for 30 days till? Trying to learn as much as possible.

 

[brandon429]

For sure it's new

consider this: All forum cyclers and about 99% of fish store advised cycles are specifically: buy bottle bac. Add ammonia or a dead shrimp, wait till testers say pure zero ammonia, nitrite zero, must have some nitrate or its a stall and you'll have to start over. Test kit misreads aren't factored, all stated levels by testers are accepted as fact in old cycling rules and online and in pet stores. At no time can they tell you ahead of time when a tank will be ready, all tanks range in completion dates.

Nobody takes time to distinguish rocks that are already ready; that'd mean not making that extra sale on bottle bac... technically you didn't need to make that expenditure here because live rock brought in so much already, but that isn't written in cycling rules agreed. It's omitted

Now contrast that to any marine aquarium convention the last few decades. Rows of tanks, full ready reefs, entrusted to carry fifty thousand in delicate animals for sale. All started on time no stalls. They've carved down what parameters we measure during a cycle and which ones we don't need to measure or control (nitrite and nitrate) and they know how to attain timely ammonia control never relying on potentially misreading kits to set an arbitrary start date way in the future.


Everything about old cycling rules is aimed at delay and purchase. Everything going on behind the scenes for sellers runs opposite, so they won't lose money or animals. A buying gradient exists to keep cycling practices far apart between sellers and buyers. In your read planning for the new tank nobody mentioned pure skip cycle no bottle bac reefing options because all cycle instructions today consist of a purchase and a wait-- for all rocks, none get moved to front of the line.

Using your setup is precisely how 98% of marine convention skip cycle reefs are created

 

[brandon429]

The only thing Ike could have done to shore up a loose end was pre test the system for light ammonia control before starting


By excluding that step he depended on unknown status bottle bac to carry the load. It's not bad odds either, I myself have never had a single dead bottle bac appear in any cycling thread I've been in. Have heard about dead bottles, but not seen any, so in Vegas those are the exact odds I'd want. When we do verify these preparations we don't go to 2ppm because it causes lots of problems when people dose that much ammonia, again the instructions come from bottle bac sellers to spike test ammonia that high, we've got to filter out some of their advice to get to practical controls that don't cause false stalled cycle posts and spiking to 2ppm is a massive dose no reef needs for proofing-- especially on these non digital kits


To verify readiness an initial test dose of ammonia at .5 ppm is plenty, and within range of many of these cheap test kits. It specifically does not get you more filter bacteria to spike to 2ppm, surface area is what limits your bacteria not our feed offerings...these bacteria feed in addition to what we feed, they get food naturally. Withholding 2ppm initial ammonia dose doesn't limit them in any way. You'll see lots of wild claims in place nowadays demanding an initial dose of 2ppm ammonia attained in the test tank, it's snake oil science don't buy into it. Verify at half a ppm moved down and any reef using decent degree of surface area in the display will be set and ready.


Ikes thread contributes to cycling science because it used to be claimed that cycling this way was bad or harmful


But we all know a delicate reef will never run two years if burned-- he got away with skipping to front of wait line because biospira is really this good

 

[Angel_V_the_reefer]

That’s amazing and I can use this in some neat example threads, but first I have to ask about the pigmentation penetrating the first quarter inch of the sandbed

You developed that in one total week of running

If so, and it’s faster than normal, it’s not unheard of due to live rock inclusions and nutrients, food webs transfer along with live rock. Decent sized fish bioload and bright white surfaces can get some pigmentation fast but it’s rare

Is that real coralline live rock or painted coralline fake liferock (it’s not bad, but that tells us about helpful bacteria that may or may not be here)

The reason am interrogating lol is because we study skip cycle biology in my threads and if I’m clear on details here, especially if this is life rock vs live rock, then your instant fish and anemone are really a testament to today’s bottle bac engineering.

Even if that is a live rock + anchored anemone transfer from a lfs, great job. People flip out over skip cycle setups but they’ll buy corals from insta reefs at MACNA

This is part of the change in reefing that science brings. There are some things you can do fast in reefing, skipping the entire cycle is one. We usually don’t meet such a brave assembly in here that’s great work if this is a seven day tank

I remember I set up a qt with a small bag of bio media and my ammonia never rose at all ! My fishes never showed signs of distress and after testing, my nitrates went up demonstrating the bacteria was doing its job.

i have grown tired of reefers saying ‘make sure you’re bacteria is able to drop ammonia from 2 to 0 ppm in 24 hours’. I once tried and took me months and a ton of nítrate build up that for a beginner, really really made me rethink my start. Luckily I found bio spira and gave it a shot and I never went back to the old methods of cycling. I’ve used bio spira in DT and my tank has been doing well for over a year !