BIOTA Mandarin Troubles

[Apheoxx]

Hello! I have been around for a few years in the hobby and just set up my upgraded tank. I have been seeding the tank with Algaebarn copepods (around 25,000) and gave them time to mature in the tank, dosing phytoplankton in the tank daily to ensure pod population and maturation of that population. I have recently ordered a BIOTA mandarin dragonet, and they state that these little guys eat prepared foods, but I have been having one of the most difficult times trying to get him to eat. I tried pellets, he turns his nose to them. I tried frozen, he turns his nose to it. The only thing that he seems interested in is the copepods that are on the rocks and sometimes he makes his way to the glass for a change in scenery. I feel duped because they are apparently supposed to eat, if not, I would have just bought a wild caught specimen. If anyone could help me, I would really appreciate it. I am out of avenues here.

 

[blaxsun]

The captive bred mandarins supposedly won't eat frozen or pellet foods a good percentage of the time, so I'm not entirely surprised. Something you could try is calanus (or equivalent). That's how I started with both my wild caught mandarins and I had them eating brine and mysis within months. What's your tank size?

 

[Apheoxx]

The captive bred mandarins supposedly won't eat frozen or pellet foods a good percentage of the time, so I'm not entirely surprised. Something you could try is calanus (or equivalent). That's how I started with both my wild caught mandarins and I had them eating brine and mysis within months. What's your tank size?

I have a 55 gallon tank with a fuge

 

[blaxsun]

I have a 55 gallon tank with a fuge

Not bad (not great). Adult mandarins can eat between 5,000-10,000 copepods per day which is why they're usually suggested for 100-gallon tanks (or larger). It's to ensure enough rockwork to sustain a copepod population.

 

[Apheoxx]

Not bad (not great). Adult mandarins can eat between 5,000-10,000 copepods per day which is why they're usually suggested for 100-gallon tanks (or larger). It's to ensure enough rockwork to sustain a copepod population.

Yeah I have like 30 lbs of live rock, but I wouldn’t have even ordered him if I knew that he would be a pod only type of mandarin. Their marketing is pretty schemy.

 

[blaxsun]

Yeah I have like 30 lbs of live rock, but I wouldn’t have even ordered him if I knew that he would be a pod only type of mandarin. Their marketing is pretty schemy.

Yeah, it's hit and miss with the captive bred ones. You can also try bloodworms.

 

[Apheoxx]

Yeah, it's hit and miss with the captive bred ones. You can also try bloodworms.

I really appreciate your insight. He’s a tough critic!

 

[blaxsun]

I really appreciate your insight. He’s a tough critic!

They always are! I was able to add a second wild caught female mandarin for my male. As he was already eating frozen she just followed suit and picked it up on her own.

 

[Apheoxx]

They always are! I was able to add a second wild caught female mandarin for my male. As he was already eating frozen she just followed suit and picked it up on her own.

Are you able to PM me?

 

[areefer01]

What food are you trying? You didn't say.

If you look at Biota's Mandarin page it says: Hikari frozen baby brine shrimp, Piscine Energetics frozen Calanus, Easy Reefs Masstick, and tiny pellets such as TDO B2 pellet, and PE Hatchery pellet 400 μm. I would recommend starting with these.

Having ordered several variety of fish from Biota they come in small so it is best to start with what they say they are feeding on in-house. If you haven't done so you can send them an email via their portal to ask for clarity on the list but they do indeed feed prepared before leaving.

Gold lined rabbit fish, radial filefish, matted filefish, sapphire damsels, starry goby, and forktail blenny (probably the smallest fish I received from them). Try mastic (the one we make, not premade/mold) no matter what and hopefully you can find the pellets.

 

[Toob]

I haven’t had a great experience with Biota mandarins either, unfortunately. I ordered one direct from them online - was painfully skinny when it arrived, wouldn’t eat, and perished within a couple of hours.

My LFS also had some in from Biota a couple of weeks later, so I tried again thinking my first one maybe just didn’t ship well (though he was obviously super malnourished..).

Anyway the second one wouldn’t eat either, became increasingly lethargic, and was eventually eaten by my Diamond Goby.

I offered Calanus, B2 TDO, Masstick, baby brine, basically everything Biota recommended. Also have a ton of pods in my tank! Just no luck with these.

The Coral Beauty I got from Biota is tiny but she’s doing great and is an active pig.

 

[rmorris_14]

@NowGlazeIT

 

[Apheoxx]

What food are you trying? You didn't say.

If you look at Biota's Mandarin page it says: Hikari frozen baby brine shrimp, Piscine Energetics frozen Calanus, Easy Reefs Masstick, and tiny pellets such as TDO B2 pellet, and PE Hatchery pellet 400 μm. I would recommend starting with these.

Having ordered several variety of fish from Biota they come in small so it is best to start with what they say they are feeding on in-house. If you haven't done so you can send them an email via their portal to ask for clarity on the list but they do indeed feed prepared before leaving.

Gold lined rabbit fish, radial filefish, matted filefish, sapphire damsels, starry goby, and forktail blenny (probably the smallest fish I received from them). Try mastic (the one we make, not premade/mold) no matter what and hopefully you can find the pellets.

I have tried the PE pellets, live brine, and frozen foods, but the masstick is back ordered and expected two weeks from now. He just swims right by it and continues his pursuit for pods.

 

[Apheoxx]

I haven’t had a great experience with Biota mandarins either, unfortunately. I ordered one direct from them online - was painfully skinny when it arrived, wouldn’t eat, and perished within a couple of hours.

My LFS also had some in from Biota a couple of weeks later, so I tried again thinking my first one maybe just didn’t ship well (though he was obviously super malnourished..).

Anyway the second one wouldn’t eat either, became increasingly lethargic, and was eventually eaten by my Diamond Goby.

I offered Calanus, B2 TDO, Masstick, baby brine, basically everything Biota recommended. Also have a ton of pods in my tank! Just no luck with these.

The Coral Beauty I got from Biota is tiny but she’s doing great and is an active pig.

I feel your pain :/ It feels like false advertisement tbh

 

[NowGlazeIT]

I have tried the PE pellets, live brine, and frozen foods, but the masstick is back ordered and expected two weeks from now. He just swims right by it and continues his pursuit for pods.

Are you broadcasting the feed or spot feeding?

 

[DaJMasta]

A mature 55G with a single mandarin will likely be able to sustain it pretty well on the natural population, so you do have time, especially since it is small.

That said, you should be able to get it eating prepared foods, and there are a few good directions to start. I seems like your choice of food is reasonable, but make sure you are feeding with at least the powerheads off (I feed with all pumps off), it drifting around doesn't really entice them at all, and they are methodical in their hunt to the point where they can't really chase anything fast or for much distance, so for it to settle and be recognizable it helps not to have flow going.

Next, I would make sure you are spot feeding it directly. It will probably shy away from you and your baster or whatnot initially, but gently send some its direction may help get the required attention. My mandarins are trained to eat frozen, but they sometimes have trouble recognizing foods they like around the tank after they've been sitting there for a bit, so presenting the fish with some food directly while it's watching is probably helpful.

Finally, if it's just not working, buy yourself a breeder box that holds onto the side (and I like using an algae magnet to further secure it), put a little cover in it (PVC fitting or the like), put the mandarin in the box, and feed it the foods it should like to eat there. It's a good way to make sure it eats, get it used to being fed rather than just picking around, and if it's forgotten or ignores foods it used to eat, the random picking around the box will definitely have it accidentally eating some of that food again. Having a much more confined space dramatically increases the chance that random picking eats some of the prepared foods. Feed the box preferably twice a day, until you can verify that shortly after feeding it eats the prepared stuff, and use a baster to clean out old food before the next feeding each time. I started from scratch with wild caught mandarins and each took about two weeks to train with this method.

 

[NowGlazeIT]

A mature 55G with a single mandarin will likely be able to sustain it pretty well on the natural population, so you do have time, especially since it is small.

That said, you should be able to get it eating prepared foods, and there are a few good directions to start. I seems like your choice of food is reasonable, but make sure you are feeding with at least the powerheads off (I feed with all pumps off), it drifting around doesn't really entice them at all, and they are methodical in their hunt to the point where they can't really chase anything fast or for much distance, so for it to settle and be recognizable it helps not to have flow going.

Next, I would make sure you are spot feeding it directly. It will probably shy away from you and your baster or whatnot initially, but gently send some its direction may help get the required attention. My mandarins are trained to eat frozen, but they sometimes have trouble recognizing foods they like around the tank after they've been sitting there for a bit, so presenting the fish with some food directly while it's watching is probably helpful.

Finally, if it's just not working, buy yourself a breeder box that holds onto the side (and I like using an algae magnet to further secure it), put a little cover in it (PVC fitting or the like), put the mandarin in the box, and feed it the foods it should like to eat there. It's a good way to make sure it eats, get it used to being fed rather than just picking around, and if it's forgotten or ignores foods it used to eat, the random picking around the box will definitely have it accidentally eating some of that food again. Having a much more confined space dramatically increases the chance that random picking eats some of the prepared foods. Feed the box preferably twice a day, until you can verify that shortly after feeding it eats the prepared stuff, and use a baster to clean out old food before the next feeding each time. I started from scratch with wild caught mandarins and each took about two weeks to train with this method.

Nailed it!

 

[Wasabiroot]

In my experience, Mandarins are much more likely to go after smaller frozen first. I would try brine or calanus like mentioned above.
Mine also seems to love TDO Chromaboost small pellets, which was nice to discover.

 

[moulton1853]

Have you tried to set up a feeding station for it? I had hatched brine shrimp for mine and he would suck them out through the mess netting. Once he got use to finding food there I started placing pellets on the feeder. The only pellets he will eat are TDO. I tried a few kinds. After a few months I pulled the feeder out and drop the pellets in front of him and he will sit and eat them until he’s full. Now that I’ve had him for over a year he eats just about any small foods I broadcast feed. It took time to get him to eat everything but he is fat and happy. Good luck!

 

[Apheoxx]

Are you broadcasting the feed or spot feeding?

Both