Bizarre White Patches on New Crosshatch Trigger

alg

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We received a gorgeous bonded pair of crosshatch triggers today from LiveAquaria Diver's Den. Unfortunately, as soon as we acclimated them and put them in our quarantine system, we noticed that the male had a massive swath of white patchy...something! We've had a lot of fish get sick over the years and never seen anything quite like it!

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It kind of looks like skin is peeling / flaking off, like a really bad sunburn, but doesn't really look like it's the actual skin so much as something ON the skin that's peeling off.... hard to tell. It's mostly concentrated on the front of the body, but there are also patches on his back and fins. It doesn't seem cotton-y, like a fungus, and it doesn't really look like typical brooklynella. It's definitely not ich :p A marine biologist friend of ours suggested it might have been a parasite infection that had a secondary bacterial or fungal infection, but almost impossible to say without a sample.

It only appears on one side of the body (which to me indicates it might have been a physical injury that got infected, like a bad scrape up against a rock??). Also, the female currently doesn't seem to show signs of it, and they DO seem to be an actual bonded pair (staying very close to each other).

Another interesting point just for kicks -- we like to look at our corals under blue light with a yellow filter (who doesn't?), and we thought what the heck we'll look at the triggers, and weirdly we discovered that there actually seems to be some bioluminescence in parts of the infected areas. Not all over, just concentrated near the dorsal fin (it's the bright orange glow in the photo below)

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The fish aren't eating yet, but they did just get shipped across the country so that's not uncommon. They don't look too thin and aren't breathing very heavily.

We've done a freshwater dip on him, hard to say if it's helped, maybe a little. He's in a 55gal tank running copper for now so we'll see how he looks in the morning.
 

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I'll preface this by saying I've never seen anything quite like this before, so anything from this point forward is just guess work on my part.

What I'm seeing in that first pic (the little squiggly things), looks almost like something(s) "worm-like" attached to the skin. Have you tried sending a pic to LA? I can't imagine them sending out a DD specimen looking like this ... unless these are some sort of weird "stress spots" (?)
 
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Yep, first thing we did when we noticed it was call LA to figure out how on earth a fish got sent out like this. No way this developed over night in shipping. They have been trying to contact the head of DD but haven't been able to get an answer yet. Worst part is, not knowing what this disease is, it endangers any other fish exposed even in a QT system, copper is great but doesn't kill everything. We're lucky we had a tank set up separate from our normal QT tanks but there are some chromis and a couple of wrasses in there, and now we can't move them. We've ordered a lot off DD and sure a few fish have been DOA or died after a few days not eating, but we've NEVER had one come that looked so obviously sick. Just sad!

Will see if I can take some higher res photos. Agree that the squiggles do look a lot like worms. In white light it's hard to tell, but in blue/yellow the luminescent parts definitely looks like worm-y squiggles. May be some kind of flesh eating worm-like parasite? Going to try to get some samples today to send to a few friends at marine labs.
 

Humblefish

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Will see if I can take some higher res photos. Agree that the squiggles do look a lot like worms. In white light it's hard to tell, but in blue/yellow the luminescent parts definitely looks like worm-y squiggles. May be some kind of flesh eating worm-like parasite? Going to try to get some samples today to send to a few friends at marine labs.

Some genus of flukes (ex. Neobenedenia) will appear on the skin. There are also anchor worms and isopods to consider. Basically, any parasite with an exoskeleton. Please do update this thread if you get diagnosis confirmation.
 

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Whatever it is, it does seem to be slightly better this afternoon! Took some higher-res photos....

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Another thought we had was it may have gotten stung somehow... it doesn't look like stings we've seen before but we've only seen small ones, and these are our first triggerfish so could look different on them. Not sure HOW it would have gotten stung. A sting could have also opened it up for infection from parasites or bacteria... hard to say!

Female is eating and still seems to be clear, male is not eating yet. Here's the female :)
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I would be curious to see how this "condition" would respond to Prazipro - a dewormer used primarily to treat gill flukes and tapeworms. Another treatment option is Dimilin, which is used to treat anchor worms, amphipods, isopods, etc. I mention these because they are both relatively gentle on the fish. I use prazi prophylactically as part of my QT regimen and anyone who keeps sharks is familiar with dimilin.

If it gets too bad, treating with formalin may be your best bet. But being formalin can be pretty harsh on the fish ... I would save that as a last resort.

Hopefully he continues to improve on his own and none of that is needed. I'm just giving you options in case it doesn't. :yo:
 

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For the price of those fish $$$$,Thats terrible they even sent you that fish, in that condition. NEW OWNERS.
 

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Since it is already clearing so quickly on its own, could it be some kind of response to shipping stress?
 

Up2no6ood

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Strange. It looks like somebody laid him on some toilet paper and then it dried to his scales. Could it be just a natural slimecoat response due to handling?
 

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You might also want to crosspost this thread here: Predatory Fish Discussion

That forum might attract the attention of someone more familiar with triggers who has seen this condition before.
 

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Wow! Best of luck in treating him! Glad it seems to have cleared up some. Hopefully others will respond to help with diagnosis!
 

4FordFamily

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Any update?
 
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We have kept this triggerfish in Cupramine, and the patch has slowly but surely disappeared. He did have one patch that lingered for a while, it looked almost like a scab. There are still a few little white spots around that area -- it's hard to say if they're little bits of dead skin, or lingering parasites, or what. You can still tell where the white patches were because the skin is slightly darker in those areas, but otherwise he looks almost fully healed. He's eating and swimming normally and seems quite healthy otherwise.

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We weren't able to contact DD directly but we spoke to LA several times. According to them DD had the two fish in QT for about 30 days and it was perfectly fine when they shipped it. In fact it was only when we showed LA pictures one of our other fish that got infected from the trigger that they believed it wasn't our fault.

Given LA's warranty policy, I'm sort of inclined to believe the fish looked fine when it shipped. Shipping a fish in that condition would be pretty risky. Especially in that price range. (Although, I'm not exactly sure how the warranty stuff works bw DD and LA; if LA gets stuck with the loss instead of DD when a customer loses a fish then they might have had incentive to ship instead of risk it dying in their facility.)

Assuming they are being honest though, my best guess is that DD had the fish in copper and there was some kind of parasite in the water that copper doesn't kill, like flukes, and the stress / handling of shipment gave it opportunity to present. It seems unlikely for those kinds of symptoms to develop essentially ovenight, but not impossible.

Right now the trigger tank is running copper and we've almost finished round 3 of Prazipro. We're planning to put the triggers in a non-copper tank in a few days to see if any symptoms return, and then either way to be safe we're going to run a course of CP. Not taking any chances on our DT!
 

KoleTang

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Do they have a satisfaction garuntee or something along the lines? Considering that this is a ~$1K total purchase they had better at least get you in contact with the branch you bought it from. It makes no sense why they can call up DD, but not let you have contact with them.
 

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I'm not exactly sure how the warranty stuff works bw DD and LA
It's the same company. LA is essentially a central ordering/call center located at the same site as the DD facility. All LA orders ship directly from the wholesaler; those fish are not seen by the site employees at the LA facility. Whereas the DD facility is at the same site; everything DD has is right next door to the customer center (LA).

All DD orders have a 14 day guarantee.
 

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Hi, I just got a Red Tailed Trigger from them that developed the same thing within about 3-5 days after I got him. He is currently in a QT and I"m treating him with Paraguard which seems to be working (not as strong as Cupramine) but I have Cupramine as well if I need it. Just FYI
 
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