Blonde Naso

Lissa1987

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Ok, so ill start out with i know I have done A LOT wrong, but whats done is done so Im trying to do the best with current circumstances. Feel free to comment on how bad things were done, and how horrible I am- as long as you also have something to add about what I can do now- not just what I should have done. Three weeks ago had a LFS set up a 90 gallon FOWLR predator system (Oversized skimmer/ pump and such.) This was our first tank so I wanted him to know exactly what we were planning with it so we would start with correct equipment. It sat for a week then we added a Niger Trigger and I started dosing daily bacteria. He came in a settled right in and started eating a few hours later, the first time I tried to feed) The following day, we went to a different LFS to get a Dog faced puffer to add as the second fish. We were planning on then waiting a few weeks/months to add anything else. While at the other LFS, they convinced us (knowing the set up and length of time it had been set up) to also get a blonde naso tang while we were there as three fish wouldn't be a problem this soon. I didn't not check the fish very closely in the store i was just excited to get my puffer. On the way home I noticed spots on both the new fish. The store also sold us copper power " as its good to have on hand". Anyway, added the new fish in and both were eating within a few hours. After the 2nd day, the puffer started pouting a bit and refused to eat for about the first week. Now he is acting normally (for a Dog face) The Blonde naso never seemed to get stressed- got along with everyone swam around etc. until about a week ago. I'm not sure when he stopped eating, but it was somewhere between the 3rd and 7th day and he started hiding more. He would occasionally take a small bite of something, but not much. He refuses any types of nori (green/ green with seaweed/brown/red). He will occasional take a bite of mysis, blood worms, etc. Around the time he stopped eating the ammonia was starting to rise (why he stopped eating? or was it rising from the overfeeding i was doing to entice him to eat?) Around the same time as all that, I dosed the tank with copper power as the ich seemed obvious and the fish weren't doing as well (the trigger had acquired a couple white spots by this time.) (about 2 weeks total) Tuesday of this past week the aquarium maintenance company came and tested the water- the Ammonia was "very high" according to them although my strips never went above about 1 and the tank monitor never went above Alert) He re-dosed the Copper power and scheduled to sent out someone to do a 50 % water change on Thursday. When i asked him about the Tang, he said it was likely the ammonia and or Ich and it likely had internal parasites as well since it was a naso tang, but he wasn't sure if he could use prazi pro with copper power. He said if it lasted the next couple days until the water change he may make it. When they came back on Thursday, they did a 50% water change, and put something in the filter to remove the rest of the copper (I do not understand why as they still have some ich spots and there definitely its still ice in the tank after only a week of treatment but they said it was because the fish were looking better (except the tang who they say its just the ammonia) He has gotten so thin, i am honestly shocked he is still alive. For the first time last night he ate 3 whole bloodworms, which has given me a little renewed hope. Starting yesterday he has also been out and about a lot more and is even picking at the rocks. I have added pictures of what they all looked like initially and now. I have been researching continuously about different possible causes/solutions but i have heard so many different things from the local experts, I don't know where to begin.
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HotRocks

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Forget what you did wrong, this hobby is hard to get along with sometimes and lessons can be costly. We have all been there in some way at one time or another.

Here are my recommendations/observations:

One week is a very short time for a tank to cycle and adding fish. Did you/they seed this tank with bacteria in a bottle of any sort? This could be part of your ammonia problem.

Ammonia; Even slight traces can start causing Gill damage almost immediately, so if a badge or test shows even alert status, I would recommend an immediate water change, not waiting a couple days or any length of time. Especially don't wait till you get to a toxic level. You can also dose ammonia reducers, but not if you have copper present.

Copper;
When you say you dosed copper did you dose the instructed amount all at once?

I have recently switched to copper power and had much success with it. I did spend 7 full days (2 doses per day) ramping up the the therapeutic level. This tends to be much easier on the fish than taking it all at once. Copper is poison, and it can supress appetite. So the slow ramp up tends to help them adjust to it and maintain eating. If you are dealing with velvet you don't have the option to take 7 days, you would want to do abbreviated ramp up to be therapeutic within 48 hours.

Also, it is a must to keep them above the therapeutic minimum of 1.5ppm for 30 days. I choose to treat at 1.75ppm Anywhere between 1.5ppm-2.0ppm should do the job. Testing is very important throughout the treatment process. Especially if you are running it in your display as things like skimmer and live rock can absorb/remove copper resulting in a lower than expected Cu level.

Be careful with the advice of the LFS. There are some good ones out there, some not so much (I would say you are dealing with the latter of the two, because I find it hard to believe a reputable store would setup a new tank, and advise adding fish within a week. It's just hard to have any kind of stability in a tank that fresh). The key to this hobby is patience for sure. Trust me I have screwed up plenty myself, by rushing and doing to many things at once.

I would highly recommend reading as much info as you can in the sticky threads at the top of the disease forum. Tons of good info. @Humblefish and other members have put tons of hours into all this great fee info!
 
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Lissa1987

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Yes, i forgot to mention, I have been adding microbacter7 daily for almost 2 weeks now. When i tested a couple hours ago, my ammonia was down to 0.5 but of course, now my nitrite and nitrate are through the roof.

Yes, i addded it all at once... I didn’t realize there was another option-so i just followed the directions on the bottle. Now that the maintenance company has done a 50% water change and added whatever to the filter to remove more of the copper, i guess i will test it tomorrow and work on getting it completely out of the system so i can use chemicals to control the water quality until i can get the natural ecosystem working. Hopefully the ich doesn’t do too much damage in the meantime.

As far as potential flukes in the tang- fresh water dips...are they as scary as they seem? Since he is already stressed- is it worth it to potentially relieve some of his parasite load or will the dip in itself stress him to death?
 

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Yeah, that sounds like a plan. Honestly, a 90g tank with established biofilter, ammonia should never be a concern with only 3 fish. The naso will quickly outgrow a 90g as well. Just be aware of that. Tangs like lots of swimming room.

I have never seen a fish stressed over a FW dip. Very useful in confirmation of flukes. Also provides temp relief for thing like flukes and velvet. A fish that is on its way out may not take well to the dip.

Stress won't kill a fish. Disease, parasites, infection, ammonia burn etc. Will.
 

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Yes, i forgot to mention, I have been adding microbacter7 daily for almost 2 weeks now. When i tested a couple hours ago, my ammonia was down to 0.5 but of course, now my nitrite and nitrate are through the roof.

Yes, i addded it all at once... I didn’t realize there was another option-so i just followed the directions on the bottle. Now that the maintenance company has done a 50% water change and added whatever to the filter to remove more of the copper, i guess i will test it tomorrow and work on getting it completely out of the system so i can use chemicals to control the water quality until i can get the natural ecosystem working. Hopefully the ich doesn’t do too much damage in the meantime.

As far as potential flukes in the tang- fresh water dips...are they as scary as they seem? Since he is already stressed- is it worth it to potentially relieve some of his parasite load or will the dip in itself stress him to death?
Hum hard to say yes fresh water dips are scary and only relive the problem not eliminate it if you can keep him eati9ng in My Opinion you can keep him alive. I feed a lot of live Black worms White worms and of course for the tang Nori
 

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Lissa1987

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Just wanted to thank everyone for their help. He is doing much better. Still a little thin but he is eating like a pig...Fortunately when trying to find the things he would eat I found he loved blood worms...unfortunately I found out I have a pretty severe allergy to them!

IMG_4501.JPG
 

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Tank most likely was not completely cycled, thus the bioload you added was to much and, surprise ammonia in the tank not breaking down quick enough. Fish get bummed when ammonia is going through there gills. One of them had ich so now they probably all have it which wouldn't be a big deal if you had a fully cycled tank with a strong bio filter, but feeding them extra food to help them fight off the ich naturally is not an option since the tank is not completely cycled and your ammonia is gonna go up more if you feed them more. I would not ask that fish store for any further advice cuz they should have not sold you all those fish if the tank had only been less than a month running. Best bet is to ask any questions here since the people offering the advice don't have a stake $$$$ in it. Good luck sorry to here your lfs was only in it for the money. Hopefully you have another lfs nearby you can visit and gauge how they are.
 

Dilan Patel

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I find the quickest way to get fish fat and happy is to feed frozen food...LRS is my fish as well as my favorite food to feed. The fish eat it like crazy as well as its a very clean food so overfeeding is a lot harder to do than feeding pellet/other frozen foods. I used to have very thin fish I just didn't realize I did. As I have progressed I make sure to get my fish fat and happy :) It especially important for me due to me not quarentining and doing the "ick management" plan.
 

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I find the quickest way to get fish fat and happy is to feed frozen food...LRS is my fish as well as my favorite food to feed. The fish eat it like crazy as well as its a very clean food so overfeeding is a lot harder to do than feeding pellet/other frozen foods. I used to have very thin fish I just didn't realize I did. As I have progressed I make sure to get my fish fat and happy :) It especially important for me due to me not quarentining and doing the "ick management" plan.

Exactly! Best way to keep fish healthy is to keep them happy and full. Having full stomachs leads to less stress on the fish and even to less aggressive qualities.
 

RobW

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I find the quickest way to get fish fat and happy is to feed frozen food...LRS is my fish as well as my favorite food to feed. The fish eat it like crazy as well as its a very clean food so overfeeding is a lot harder to do than feeding pellet/other frozen foods. I used to have very thin fish I just didn't realize I did. As I have progressed I make sure to get my fish fat and happy :) It especially important for me due to me not quarentining and doing the "ick management" plan.
+1 on the LRS. I got a baby Hippo Tang a few weeks ago. Her body was about 1" long and she was a little thin looking. Been feeding the LRS herbivore food. Her color is popping and she is fattening up nicely.

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Lissa1987

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I ended up rehoming my blonde as he seemed to be starting to get antsy...Yes, the fish maintenance company said that was just fish, but I could tell a difference... When he left me though, he was fat as can be and happy!
 

crusso1993

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I ended up rehoming my blonde as he seemed to be starting to get antsy...Yes, the fish maintenance company said that was just fish, but I could tell a difference... When he left me though, he was fat as can be and happy!

Thanks for the update! Happy to hear your Naso was a chubster when you rehomed him. Did you replace him with anything?
 
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Lissa1987

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Most of the crew...plus a bonus one of my conch just because he's cool. lol Can you tell they think they should be fed?

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crusso1993

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Most of the crew...plus a bonus one of my conch just because he's cool. lol Can you tell they think they should be fed?

IMG_9411.jpg


IMG_1953.jpg


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Nice and not shy looking group! I'm diggin' the conch too! You have a favorite?
 

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