Blue Green Chromis Hole-in-Head | Uronema-marinum

[o00brandon00o]

Please advise on the growing hole in his head.

Thank you for your attention and help with the one with spots too. He seems to be getting better:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/blue-green-chromis-spots-help-identify.395421/#post-4761723

UPDATE:
Community says Uronema, changing title.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/uronema-marinum.247940/

 

[deedubz]

That looks like uronema to me.

You'll want to feed metroplex bound with focus to treat it internally as well as dosing the aquarium to treat it externally. Are there any inverts in that tank? Unfortunately uronema doesn't have a fallow period. Even if you remove the fish for qt the disease will remain active within the tank.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/uronema-marinum.247940/

@Humblefish @Big G @HotRocks @4FordFamily am I missing anything?

 

[4FordFamily]

No this is pretty on point!

That looks like uronema to me.

You'll want to feed metroplex bound with focus to treat it internally as well as dosing the aquarium to treat it externally. Are there any inverts in that tank? Unfortunately uronema doesn't have a fallow period. Even if you remove the fish for qt the disease will remain active within the tank.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/uronema-marinum.247940/

@Humblefish @Big G @HotRocks @4FordFamily am I missing anything?

 

[HotRocks]

+1 looks like uronema to me!
Good advice!

 

[o00brandon00o]

...metroplex bound with focus to treat it internally as well as dosing the aquarium to treat it externally. Are there any inverts in that tank? ...

No inverts other than 2 snails, see build thread (for more detail than you prob care for) to see how new system is.

Please clarify treatment:

Internally
Metroplex, arriving Tue, 5/29
Focus, arriving Tue, 5/29

Externally
?

Treat DT
?



https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/uronema-marinum.247940/

@dwwataz
@Humblefish
@Big G
@HotRocks
@4FordFamily

 

[Big G]

Sorry but the tank will need to be emptied and sterilized to get rid of the uronema.

 

[HotRocks]

Sorry but the tank will need to be emptied and sterilized to get rid of the uronema.

Yep, it's the only way...

 

[o00brandon00o]

Yep, it's the only way...

@HotRocks @Big G

Is there literature on how to sterilize? Fresh water soak? Dry completely? How long? Flush empty system with RO/DI and vinegar?

The DT and sump dont seem that big of a deal to steralize completely, it's the rocks and sand, right?

 

[Big G]

For the tank: Pure unscented bleach, rinse, rinse, dry. Pure vinegar, rinse, rinse, dry. And if you are really serious hydrogen peroxide will completely destroy any carbon based substances, rinse, rinse, dry.
Sand: toss it
Rocks: lots of opinions on how to do this correctly. The guys at BRS did a video on how to completely sterilize rock. Here's the link: https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/vide...s-what-is-the-best-way-to-cure-dry-live-rock/

 

[mcarroll]

I pledge allegiance to the flag of instant gratification! I walked out of there with a bottle of his refrigerated goods, 5x blue green chromis, and 2x snails covered in algae. I wanted a yellow tang until [same] LFS guy, "Eh, yellow tangs are a**holes. They're just mean."

I may have gotten lost in all the thread links you have the tank's story spread over so correct me if I'm wrong anywhere through this...

A) How long ago did the fish go from getting better like you said at the end of a long chain of positive updates on one thread...to getting a diagnosis confirmed and being treated on this one? (presumably due to getting worse, but what happened in between time?)

B) Even Humble's Uronema guide that you linked to in one thread says that most fish are simply immune to this naturally. I'm confident that wouldn't be in there if it wasn't true.

So I'm not sure how I would justify rebooting my tank if I were in your shoes. That's hair-on-fire kind of panic behavior, IMO.

I'd be VERY wary of getting into reefing if you're a hair-trigger kind of person.....expense is high and the washout rate is even higher. If you're like that but feeling dedicated, then keep in mind the reefer's mantra every time you're ready to take another step with your tank:

NOTHING GOOD HAPPENS FAST IN A REEF TANK.​

C) The mystery about chromis isn't really so much of a mystery. They are never kept in even remotely natural circumstances, even compared to other reef fish we keep (where's their coral head? where's their other 68 chums? where's the external predator threat?) and maybe more importantly we all know from the experience of others (if not personally) that as a result of their stress they fight each other to the death in almost every tank they're put in. A fish under such constant stress, where we have very little ability to help, is not going to have a fully-competent immune system.

So your answer is to avoid chromis. Good advice generally anyway. Problem solved.

If you could catch and isolate these chromis for treatment, I'd sell or give away any that you can nurse back to health.

While you're working them through that process, consider other stress-factors that may have also been at and which might impact future inhabitants. Eliminate as many of them as you can before proceeding with stocking any more fish.

These would be factors like how new you are to this hobby, how many fish were being added in a given timeframe, what other life was in the tank and for how long, generally how mature the tank ecosystem is, etc. Everything you can think of from your experience with these Chromis that would apply. You can see that passing time is a big part of all those...it's no coincidence. Goes back to nothing good happening fast in a reef tank. Going slow is how you build good karma in this hobby.

From your build thread, it looks like these fish were added while the tank was still being built. Unless there are details missing, there's no way your tank was ready for 5 nasty (as in mean, and as in dirty...they are always a high-loss fish at every stage of their cycle) chromis. "Sometimes" there are decent batches. The LFS should have given almost the same advice on these as the tang (only chromis' focus on each other) and asked you to leave with the snails and come back for ONE fish in a month or so after you see how things are going.

Was your live rock, live from the ocean BTW? And have you added corals yet...or will you?

 

[4FordFamily]

I may have gotten lost in all the thread links you have the tank's story spread over so correct me if I'm wrong anywhere through this...

A) How long ago did the fish go from getting better like you said at the end of a long chain of positive updates on one thread...to getting a diagnosis confirmed and being treated on this one? (presumably due to getting worse, but what happened in between time?)

B) Even Humble's Uronema guide that you linked to in one thread says that most fish are simply immune to this naturally. I'm confident that wouldn't be in there if it wasn't true.

So I'm not sure how I would justify rebooting my tank if I were in your shoes. That's hair-on-fire kind of panic behavior, IMO.

I'd be VERY wary of getting into reefing if you're a hair-trigger kind of person.....expense is high and the washout rate is even higher. If you're like that but feeling dedicated, then keep in mind the reefer's mantra every time you're ready to take another step with your tank:

NOTHING GOOD HAPPENS FAST IN A REEF TANK.​

C) The mystery about chromis isn't really so much of a mystery. They are never kept in even remotely natural circumstances, even compared to other reef fish we keep (where's their coral head? where's their other 68 chums? where's the external predator threat?) and maybe more importantly we all know from the experience of others (if not personally) that as a result of their stress they fight each other to the death in almost every tank they're put in. A fish under such constant stress, where we have very little ability to help, is not going to have a fully-competent immune system.

So your answer is to avoid chromis. Good advice generally anyway. Problem solved.

If you could catch and isolate these chromis for treatment, I'd sell or give away any that you can nurse back to health.

While you're working them through that process, consider other stress-factors that may have also been at and which might impact future inhabitants. Eliminate as many of them as you can before proceeding with stocking any more fish.

These would be factors like how new you are to this hobby, how many fish were being added in a given timeframe, what other life was in the tank and for how long, generally how mature the tank ecosystem is, etc. Everything you can think of from your experience with these Chromis that would apply. You can see that passing time is a big part of all those...it's no coincidence. Goes back to nothing good happening fast in a reef tank. Going slow is how you build good karma in this hobby.

From your build thread, it looks like these fish were added while the tank was still being built. Unless there are details missing, there's no way your tank was ready for 5 nasty (as in mean, and as in dirty...they are always a high-loss fish at every stage of their cycle) chromis. "Sometimes" there are decent batches. The LFS should have given almost the same advice on these as the tang (only chromis' focus on each other) and asked you to leave with the snails and come back for ONE fish in a month or so after you see how things are going.

Was your live rock, live from the ocean BTW? And have you added corals yet...or will you?

Well said.

IME if you don’t wish to keep chromis, you could just treat them and hope the others don’t show symptoms. With the exception of some butterflies on occasion, most fish are unaffected by it IME.

I’m all about treating fish but I don’t personally see the marginal gain here. I don’t like chromis enough to justify all that work to keep it out, personally.

 

[o00brandon00o]

I may have gotten lost in all the thread links you have the tank's story spread over so correct me if I'm wrong anywhere through this...

A) How long ago did the fish go from getting better like you said at the end of a long chain of positive updates on one thread...to getting a diagnosis confirmed and being treated on this one? (presumably due to getting worse, but what happened in between time?)

@mcarroll

Positive updates on the first chromis thread were related to spots I noticed 1st day home from LFS after acclimation.

New hole-in-head is a different fish, just showed up when I posted the second thread.

Hope that helps,

B) Even Humble's Uronema guide that you linked to in one thread says that most fish are simply immune to this naturally. I'm confident that wouldn't be in there if it wasn't true.

So I'm not sure how I would justify rebooting my tank if I were in your shoes. That's hair-on-fire kind of panic behavior, IMO.

Thank you, I agree and your justification makes a lot of sense!

I'd be VERY wary of getting into reefing if you're a hair-trigger kind of person.....expense is high and the washout rate is even higher. If you're like that but feeling dedicated, then keep in mind the reefer's mantra every time you're ready to take another step with your tank:

NOTHING GOOD HAPPENS FAST IN A REEF TANK.​

C) The mystery about chromis isn't really so much of a mystery. They are never kept in even remotely natural circumstances, even compared to other reef fish we keep (where's their coral head? where's their other 68 chums? where's the external predator threat?) and maybe more importantly we all know from the experience of others (if not personally) that as a result of their stress they fight each other to the death in almost every tank they're put in. A fish under such constant stress, where we have very little ability to help, is not going to have a fully-competent immune system.

So your answer is to avoid chromis. Good advice generally anyway. Problem solved.

If you could catch and isolate these chromis for treatment, I'd sell or give away any that you can nurse back to health.

While you're working them through that process, consider other stress-factors that may have also been at and which might impact future inhabitants. Eliminate as many of them as you can before proceeding with stocking any more fish.

These would be factors like how new you are to this hobby, how many fish were being added in a given timeframe, what other life was in the tank and for how long, generally how mature the tank ecosystem is, etc. Everything you can think of from your experience with these Chromis that would apply. You can see that passing time is a big part of all those...it's no coincidence. Goes back to nothing good happening fast in a reef tank. Going slow is how you build good karma in this hobby.

Very well said, thank you for elaborating!

From your build thread, it looks like these fish were added while the tank was still being built. Unless there are details missing, there's no way your tank was ready for 5 nasty (as in mean, and as in dirty...they are always a high-loss fish at every stage of their cycle) chromis. "Sometimes" there are decent batches. The LFS should have given almost the same advice on these as the tang (only chromis' focus on each other) and asked you to leave with the snails and come back for ONE fish in a month or so after you see how things are going.

This would have been [is] solid advice!

Was your live rock, live from the ocean BTW? And have you added corals yet...or will you?

It was dry live rock. No corals at all, one step at a time.

I really appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts and experiences!

 

[o00brandon00o]

Holes died this morning, wife not happy. Check out that hole! Pictures for #science (of the fish).

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