Blue Tang in a 4ft?

[ollysaquariums]

Hey all,
I have a 4ft long 303 litre reef tank (including sump) and I have a pair of clownfish, a yellow coris wrasse, a flame hawkfish, a yellow coral goby, a convict tang, and a gold rim/white cheek tang.

My gold rim tang has become too aggressive and my mate (who has been in the hobby for over 10 years and a marine biologist) told me I should probably swap him for another fish, even though I did buy the gold rim off of him but it wasn’t aggressive back then. The gold rim has killed one of my wrasses and scopas tang so I agree that it’s time he goes.

Anyway, I was told by the same mate after I said how much I want a blue tang in the future when I have a bigger tank when I eventually move out, and he said that I can have one still since they have them at the shop I buy all my fish and corals from and they’re only about 3-5cm and he said I’d be able to have one in my tank for about a year and a half before needing to rehome it. Is this possible? Also would the blue tang be less aggressive than the gold rim? None of my other fish are aggressive (other than the female clown to her male partner for breeding) so without the gold rim will aggression be mostly fixed?

Thanks!

Tangs are inherently territorial. Space wise, you can keep a juvenile in that tank for that period of time. When you say blue tang, do you mean an Atlantic blue or a blue hippo. Atlantic blues are in the same genus as your gold rim, and can be aggressive, but they’re not as aggressive as gold rims or the powders. That entire genus is pretty mean though. Blue hippo tangs seem kind of dopey, and they’re pretty passive when they’re young. However, I’ve had them turn into total terrors when they get bigger. One of them was probably the meanest tang I’ve ever had besides a purple tang. The most even tempered tang I’ve had is a yellow tang. Each fish is different though. In a larger tank your tangs will be less aggressive since they have more space, and if you want more than one tang, I would do at least 3-4 to space out the aggression. If your lfs, does not qt, make sure to qt your hippa tang. They’re ich magnets.

Yeah it’s a hippo tang. So you’re saying if I do tangs to avoid having just the two and get a possible third and/or fourth? I used to have african cichlids so is it sort of like that where having more lowers aggression than having less? The convict is probably the most peaceful even more than my clowns and is still very small as he was caught out of a tidepool (he’s roughly 5cm, about the same size as the hippo tang I’m getting and I’ll attach a photo for size reference). Thanks for the input though! I’m probably going to swap the gold rim out for the hippo and if you reckon I should get an extra one or two for aggression I’ll maybe think about a bristletooth or tomini which will be able to stay in the tank full time.

Yes, it’s very similar to cichlids. I do the same thing with angelfish and it’s successful. The tomini could stay in the tank forever, and I would upgrade if you wanted to keep the hippa tang. 5 cm (2 inches) is a good starting size. Not to be mean but the convict tang looks to be on the thin side. What and how much/often do you feed? I would swap the gold rim though. That genus is aggressive anyways, but they’re even more so in smaller tanks.

The convict gets fed with all the other fish which is once a day. They’re fed ocean nutrition formula two (about half a cube) and he gets most of it tbh.

I would add a half a sheet to a full sheet of nori to his diet every day. Tangs are predominantly herbivores and need nori to maintain their color and health. It will also probably help with aggression. Your other fish will like it too eventually. I’ve gotten almost everything from tangs, marine bettas, triggers, and groupers to eat nori. The only fish I’ve never gotten to eat it are eels, scorpionfish, and sharks lol. I like to see my tangs really thick and chunky. I think you’ll see a big difference in his behavior if you do that.

He does get nori but it’s every 2 days.

 

[ollysaquariums]

every tang you have needs a 6ft tank no wonder it's aggressive and killing fish and blue tang needs 240 gallons

nope not true haha. for example, tomini tangs and bristletooth tangs are fine in a 4 ft.

 

[ollysaquariums]

Sure, he'll have to upgrade that tank or sell the tang if he wants to keep it long term. But, for now, a baby blue tang would be fine. Most new people to the hobby don't keep tanks running longer than 1-2 years anyway before they upgrade or leave the hobby.

thank you for your defense haha you definitely know your stuff and I don’t think these people read that I was told this by a MARINE BIOLOGIST.

 

[ollysaquariums]

I haven’t kept a convict tang but don’t they become extremely aggressive? I also don’t like the “re-home” plan. The starckii is a great recommendation for that size tank. I loved mine. Always swimming.

No, if they are fed well they’re fine. Mine is the most peaceful in the tank.

 

[Tonycass12]

I like the purple sea veggies but also feed the one with garlic extract to for the health benefits

What health benefits does garlic support? Just curious since this is mentioned a bunch but has so far been unproven.

 

[DSC reef]

every tang you have needs a 6ft tank no wonder it's aggressive and killing fish and blue tang needs 240 gallons

This is a very extreme take in my opinion and with this logic no one should keep a tang. This is just my opinion, not an attack. My purple tang was an amazing fish in my 75 reef and I raised him over a decade from a tiny baby. I broke down my tank due life issues and gave my beloved tang to a guy with 200 gallon tank and a year later he looked terrible, broke my heart.

 

[The Ugly Phase]

nope not true haha. for example, tomini tangs and bristletooth tangs are fine in a 4 ft.

but you don't have 1 of them? you have tangs that need a 6ft tank convict and goldrim

 

[The Ugly Phase]

This is a very extreme take in my opinion and with this logic no one should keep a tang. This is just my opinion, not an attack. My purple tang was an amazing fish in my 75 reef and I raised him over a decade from a tiny baby. I broke down my tank due life issues and gave my beloved tang to a guy with 200 gallon tank and a year later he looked terrible, broke my heart.

i have a yellow in a 4ft 120 i was on about OP tangs not "every tang" convict and a goldrim they both need 6ft tanks otherwise they stress and pace no Acanthurus belongs in anything less than 6ft they are swimmers and 6ft is min really i believe it should be bigger believe me i have tried in the past with a powder blue it paced constantly and i found it a nice 500 gallon tank to live in

 

[littlefoxx]

This is a very extreme take in my opinion and with this logic no one should keep a tang. This is just my opinion, not an attack. My purple tang was an amazing fish in my 75 reef and I raised him over a decade from a tiny baby. I broke down my tank due life issues and gave my beloved tang to a guy with 200 gallon tank and a year later he looked terrible, broke my heart.

Mine are healthy and fat in my 300 gallon (aside from my un scraped glass and pictures where I just fed). If you give tangs the space and food they require they do really well! The guy yours went to must have been really bad at keeping fish.

 

[DSC reef]

Again, not looking for argument or bashing anyone in any way. Increasing tank size does not always equate to a tangs health and longevity. Refer to my first post, I think a hippo tang would not work in his tank and I suggested a strakii damsel. Take it as you will. We've all been in this hobby a long time with different experiences and im just sharing mine

 

[Largeangels]

Exactly. We all have our experiences and they are all a little different. There is also the individual personality of a tang. Convict tang IME is the nastiest ever. But that is based on the single individual I had and returned. My Sohol who's approaching 9" is the boss but very calm and likes to keep to his 2 or 3 feet of space on the left side of the tank grazing on the rocks, Nori and food I feed (which is often). He rarely ventures to the other side of the tank and then mostly to chase off one of the tangs showing he's the boss and that is his space. But then will let them come over and its calm.

 

[BryanM]

Tank is too small, and my experience with increased feedings is that it has curbed aggression in my tank. I feed 3x a day.

 

[littlefoxx]

Again, not looking for argument or bashing anyone in any way. Increasing tank size does not always equate to a tangs health and longevity. Refer to my first post, I think a hippo tang would not work in his tank and I suggested a strakii damsel. Take it as you will. We've all been in this hobby a long time with different experiences and im just sharing mine

Oh for sure I was more sad that someone with a big tank couldnt take care of your tang! Horrible because they really do thrive in bigger tanks. My purple too but he is a ceab apple and likes his cave and chasing passing fish away from it than he does coming out. Shame he is beautiful too

 

[ollysaquariums]

Exactly. We all have our experiences and they are all a little different. There is also the individual personality of a tang. Convict tang IME is the nastiest ever. But that is based on the single individual I had and returned. My Sohol who's approaching 9" is the boss but very calm and likes to keep to his 2 or 3 feet of space on the left side of the tank grazing on the rocks, Nori and food I feed (which is often). He rarely ventures to the other side of the tank and then mostly to chase off one of the tangs showing he's the boss and that is his space. But then will let them come over and its calm.

I totally agree, although my convict is a very peaceful individual, and I’ve swapped the gold rim for the blue tang and the blue is doing amazing and is only about 3-5cm. Also the convict tang I have was actually caught locally by a mate in a tide pool and was actually only about the size of a fingernail so he’s been raised from that size. The blue tang will also probably be able to be kept as I do plan on upgrading to a 6ft in the future. Also, no matter the size of the tank, tangs will grow to the size of the tank in my opinion. For example, a tomini will grow to the size it fits in a 75 gallon, but if put in a 125 it’ll grow bigger.

 

[hatfielj]

Contradiction? Or attempted justifications of one’s own actions?

No, I don't think so. I was referring to the OPs tank, which I didn't realize was THAT small. But, I still feel a 4ft long tank is fine for a hippo tang, especially in a wider tank like 24 or 30 inches. The tang won't reach it's full potential there and you would likely feel the need to upgrade, but I wouldn't tell someone they couldn't do it if they wanted to. Hippos usually don't get much longer than 8-9 inches in captivity, unless you keep them in a monster sized tank long term.
And again, it's all kind of silly to argue over which size glass box we keep them in. They come from the ocean where even the largest aquarium ever built is like a prison cell compared to the space they have on a natural reef. As long as they are healthy and able to swim freely and have space to hide in the rock work, does it really matter if the tank is 4ft long or 6ft long?

 

[hatfielj]

This is a very extreme take in my opinion and with this logic no one should keep a tang. This is just my opinion, not an attack. My purple tang was an amazing fish in my 75 reef and I raised him over a decade from a tiny baby. I broke down my tank due life issues and gave my beloved tang to a guy with 200 gallon tank and a year later he looked terrible, broke my heart.

Exactly. It's the care you give them that's just as important as the size of the tank IMO. Good water quality, a high diversity of foods, especially algae, and good husbandry are all just as important as tank size.

 

[areefer01]

Let us be honest. It is called shopping for approval. Not an actual question looking for an honest answer.

Blue tangs (Paracanthurus hepatus) can get large anywhere from 7 to 12 inches if not more depending on source of information. They can be purchased captive bred so upon arrival will be small. My experience, having one from Biota, is that they have a rapid growth initially when properly fed. Mine is already pushing 4 to 5 inches within my first year of ownership. They like to swim. They like reef structures. They like Acropora colonies. They use both reef structure and Acropora colonies for safety and sleeping. Again, what I see while scuba diving and what I am experiencing in ownership. They should be feed daily, several small portions. Should also have good nori. They may not eat off the clip due to their size and tank mate eating speed but as they get more and more comfortable will branch out from the reef and eat nori as it floats about by the current.

One thing to ask consider if you say but I will re-home it. Will you? And at what effort and cost? My point is that the fish is not going to enter the net when you ask it. A trap may work. It may take a while. But what if it doesn't work, what then? Removal of rocks, corals, reef structure which is stress on hobbyist, stress on the other fish, and stress on the one you are trying to catch...

TL; DR always look at the bigger picture. Estimates size of fish. What its needs are. What is an acceptable risk should something not go as planned. Above all, feeding. Do you want to eat every other day or one small portion that is fought over by other tank enhabitants?

 

[littlefoxx]

I totally agree, although my convict is a very peaceful individual, and I’ve swapped the gold rim for the blue tang and the blue is doing amazing and is only about 3-5cm. Also the convict tang I have was actually caught locally by a mate in a tide pool and was actually only about the size of a fingernail so he’s been raised from that size. The blue tang will also probably be able to be kept as I do plan on upgrading to a 6ft in the future. Also, no matter the size of the tank, tangs will grow to the size of the tank in my opinion. For example, a tomini will grow to the size it fits in a 75 gallon, but if put in a 125 it’ll grow bigger.

Fish do NOT “grow to the size of the tank”… my sailfin is the size of a dinner plate. She is six years old. She was this size in the 80 gallon someone decided to keep her in for these six years. Rehomed because she was knocking everything over. I now have her in a 300 gallon tank, much happier. So no they dont “grow to the size of the tank”

 

[areefer01]

Fish do NOT “grow to the size of the tank”… my sailfin is the size of a dinner plate. She is six years old. She was this size in the 80 gallon someone decided to keep her in for these six years. Rehomed because she was knocking everything over. I now have her in a 300 gallon tank, much happier. So no they dont “grow to the size of the tank”

Stunted growth, limited space, age, all sorts of things come up as do explanations. Can do a search with plenty to read. Here are 5 pages below.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/does-fish-growth-get-stunted-in-an-aquarium.966384/

 

[littlefoxx]

Stunted growth, limited space, age, all sorts of things come up as do explanations. Can do a search with plenty to read. Here are 5 pages below.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/does-fish-growth-get-stunted-in-an-aquarium.966384/

Thank you! My point was more for people who think that fish just magically grow to fit any size tank they are in. Stunting their growth (like with my sailfin before I rescued her) is not fair and its not them “growing to fit the tank” its like actually doing damage to them! My fish has actually started growing again in my tank but I hated to think of her the size I got her in an 80 gallon, and she most certainly didnt grow to fit that tank it took her about a month with me to realize she could fully stretch out her fins in her new home. I almost cried cause I was happy she could finally have the room she deserved I think she is just stunning. Tank boss for sure