Blue Tang Issues

[jsker]

No; I've been dripping in some VitaChem, but that does not cover Vitamin M. No metroplex either.

Just dosed in a scoop of metroplex (it's a 10gal QT). Not sure I have any Vitamin M on hand...

Also; have not added PraziPro at this point. I've not seen enough normal eating to feel comfortable adding in potential anti-eat meds. I'm seeing better eating today from the other two, however. PraziPro in as well? And reaction with that and Metroplex?

One thing to note is that we had a sick kid over the other day, which caused my wife to do a "complete clean" the other day. Lots of Lysol sprayed in the house; Clorox wipes on every surface, etc. I opened all the windows until the smell was gone (and then some), but I'm worried that something may have gotten into the tank(s) - I'm also noticing my rock nems moving about in the DT (unusual as they've not moved in months). The latter may be unrelated, however (my lights have been acting up recently, so I attribute it more to that).

I drop the metroplex in the frozen, so that it is ingested. The Vitamin M is to help with the immune system. Think of this way, we as humans will work hard to make a deadline we get tired and get sick. Shipping iis the same r stress on fish. What do we do as humans if we feel a cold coming on? bulk up on the vitamin C and whatever else, if it get worse we call the Doc and and get a scrip for antibiotics.

Drop the metroplex in the food so that the naso eats it. The vitamin m can come later. I learned this from the guys over @WWC, works every time.

 

[DLHDesign]

Are you using a flashlight to check the badge?

Yup. Checked both using direct daylight and a flashlight; .02 both times. I've thrown it away already (not worth even the chance that it's wrong).

Drop the metroplex in the food so that the naso eats it. The vitamin m can come later.

Nice. Brightwell for Vitamin M, or is there something better?

Yeah; normally I'd done metro+focus into the food. This dosing I just dumped it into the tank to get it going. I wonder if I add the metroplex to the brine shrimp bath, would that kill the brine shrimp, fortify them with it, or have no effect...
I'll have to go back to feeding frozen in order to get the metroplex back in there. I'd stopped (switched to pellet and live brine) in order to keep the ammonia down, ironically enough...

Everyone is transferred into the new QT. I've removed the egg crate dividers I had in place. I figure if they are all going to fight, I'd prefer to find out now; and more space is better for all three. The limited swim space may be causing the stress as well. Everyone seems to be taking advantage of the increase in space (4x), including the Naso, so I imagine that was the right call...

When it comes to tangs in QT, what do people do about the nori sheets? I've been adding very small pieces (1/4" square) into each 1/4 section of tank and just added a 1.5" square sheet into the full 10g tank...

 

[DLHDesign]

The main visual things that have me worried are the white blotchiness and the "exposed" white parts of the dorsal fin...

 

[jenreefer]

The main visual things that have me worried are the white blotchiness and the "exposed" white parts of the dorsal fin...

I vote antibiotics. seems that the skin lesions are getting worse and that means infection.

 

[4FordFamily]

@Humblefish @melypr1985

 

[melypr1985]

Have you done a freshwater dip on him yet? I can't remember what all has happened in this thread thus far. I remember the little hippo tang....

Freshwater Dip: Provides temporary relief for Brooklynella, Flukes & "Black Ich", Marine Velvet disease (Amyloodinium); possibly even Ich & Uronema marinum (both unproven). Can be used to confirm the presence of Flukes.

How To Treat - Fill a bucket with RODI water, and use a heater to match the temperature to the water the fish is coming from. Aerate the water heavily for at least 30 minutes prior to doing the dip, then discontinue aeration while performing the dip. Fish aren’t overly pH sensitive for short durations like this, but you can squirt a little tank water into the dip just before the fish goes in to help bring it up.

Place the fish in the freshwater (FW) dip and observe closely. It is not unusual for them to freak out a little at first. Also, tangs are notorious for “playing dead” during a FW dip. The important thing is to watch their gills; they should be breathing heavily at all times during the dip. If breathing slows, it’s time to exit the dip. Dip the fish for no longer than 5 minutes. Multiple dips may be done, but it’s important to give your fish a day to recuperate in-between dips.

For flukes, use a dark (preferably black) bucket so you can see if tiny white worms fall out of the fish (especially out of the gills) at around the 3-4 minute mark. The worms will settle to the bottom, so you can use a flashlight to look for them there as well.

Pros - Provides temporary relief for a wide range of diseases in a chemical free environment. Can “buy you more time” until a proper treatment can be done.

Cons/Side Effects - Not a permanent “fix” for any disease, as FW dips are not potent enough to eradicate all of the parasites/worms afflicting the fish. Some fish can have an adverse reaction to a FW dip by appearing unable to maintain their equilibrium once returned to the aquarium. If this happens, hold the fish upright (using latex, nitrile or rubber gloves), and gently glide him through the water (to get saltwater flowing through the gills again). It is also a good idea to place the fish in an acclimation box until he appears “normal”.

 

[DLHDesign]

Have you done a freshwater dip on him yet?

No - FW dip not yet done. But I've been warming up the water for one, so thank you for confirming. (The only reason I thought to do the FW dip, btw, was because you've mentioned it before.)

Yeah; with the blue gone, I've moved on to the next tang that's having problems. I'd hoped this thread would die along with the blue, to be honest...
At least this way, all the "tang troubles" will be contained in a single thread for others to find.

 

[melypr1985]

No - FW dip not yet done. But I've been warming up the water for one, so thank you for confirming. (The only reason I thought to do the FW dip, btw, was because you've mentioned it before.)

Yeah; with the blue gone, I've moved on to the next tang that's having problems. I'd hoped this thread would die along with the blue, to be honest...
At least this way, all the "tang troubles" will be contained in a single thread for others to find.

Let us know the results. Be sure to look for flukes... they resemble sesame seeds but I can get photos for reference from the freshwater dip thread if you need them.

 

[DLHDesign]

After temp-matching and aerating for 30min, I moved the Naso into the FW dip container (which is black-bottomed). Gill movement the entire time, some "shock swimming", but mostly just laying at the bottom (all sounds normal, though this is my first FW dip). After just under 5 minutes, I moved it back into the QT. Held the fish upright for a few moments (15sec?) and then let it go. This is a video of a few minutes later:

(Note that the pump in the video is off - I've got the heater and air stone running and that's it.)
And here's a picture of the FW:

Those specs may be flukes or ich?
They could also just be egg casings from the brine shrimp that I've been adding to the tank that stuck to my glove, the fish, or (more like) the air stone (which was in the QT before the FW). They are far smaller than even a sesame seed - I'd say about 1/10 the size? It wasn't until I hit the bowl with a flashlight that the specs really became visible. When I did that, I was able to spot a few brine shrimp swimming about as well.

The fish's color is much more pale all around than before. It's now spending time at the surface again, though it seems to be swimming a bit better and will go lower in the water from time to time. Seems to be doing better than before the dip, but it's hard to say (might just be wishful/hopeful thinking)?

I'm exhausted from the long day (it started with an early-morning soccer game) at this point, so I'm going to leave things as they are so that I don't make any costly mistakes.

 

[Humblefish]

@DLHDesign Those could be flukes. Did they look like this closeup?

 

[DLHDesign]

No; they do not. Most certainly spherical; not at all teardrop.

iPhone refuses to hold focus, but here's a zoomed in shot, if that helps:

 

[4FordFamily]

That naso is very thin which is your first problem - it doesn't look promising. Have you tried live blackworms and live brine? Red nori may also do it.

Unfortunately if that fish doesn't eat real soon there's no hope

 

[melypr1985]

I believe that's debris and not flukes. You wouldn't see ick if it fell off in a freshwater dip either. I agree that the tang is very very skinny, but I'm a little perplexed at what might be his problem otherwise. It could just be gill damage from the long acclimation though which is causing him problems breathing and lack of appetite. Did this one get the methyline blue treatment? I can't remember if the blue tang did or not.

 

[DLHDesign]

No; the Naso did not - only the blue.

The fish passed in the night. I'm not liking that I've lost 50% of this batch of fishes. But I've still got two left, and am going to do everything I can to get them to the DT. I knew going in that four such fishes at once would be a challenge, but I wanted to introduce all the tangs at once. Alas; such will not be the case - I'll have to figure out how to introduce more tangs after these are already in the DT...

It could just be gill damage from the long acclimation though which is causing him problems breathing and lack of appetite.

The Naso was difficult to catch eating, but I did see it doing so for a while. I think it was actually the spike in ammonia the other day (up to 0.5) that did the damage; not just the acclimation. In an effort to balm my emotions, I'm "blaming" this one on the faulty Ammonia Alert badge (I'll still use them - they're great - but I won't trust them as I have been if/when something comes up).
So yeah; I think ammonia exposure was to blame as the initial trigger.

The Kole is a voracious eater, has no visible signs of distress, and is already wanting to be in a bigger tank (swimming back and forth). I'm not worried about that one - which is nice as I've already named it "Bandit". ;-)
The Yellow is also eating well. Not swimming about nearly as much, but is moving back-and-forth, in-and-out of the "terrain", and generally acting like I've seen them in the wild. It's lateral line has gone from a pale yellow to white sometimes, but is currently solidly in the yellow-ish spectrum. It's dorsal fin is standing tall and undamaged.
I'm due for a tank transfer tonight, so I've gone ahead and dosed in 2.4mL of PraziPro.

 

[Brew12]

No; the Naso did not - only the blue.

The fish passed in the night. I'm not liking that I've lost 50% of this batch of fishes. But I've still got two left, and am going to do everything I can to get them to the DT. I knew going in that four such fishes at once would be a challenge, but I wanted to introduce all the tangs at once. Alas; such will not be the case - I'll have to figure out how to introduce more tangs after these are already in the DT...


The Naso was difficult to catch eating, but I did see it doing so for a while. I think it was actually the spike in ammonia the other day (up to 0.5) that did the damage; not just the acclimation. In an effort to balm my emotions, I'm "blaming" this one on the faulty Ammonia Alert badge (I'll still use them - they're great - but I won't trust them as I have been if/when something comes up).
So yeah; I think ammonia exposure was to blame as the initial trigger.

The Kole is a voracious eater, has no visible signs of distress, and is already wanting to be in a bigger tank (swimming back and forth). I'm not worried about that one - which is nice as I've already named it "Bandit". ;-)
The Yellow is also eating well. Not swimming about nearly as much, but is moving back-and-forth, in-and-out of the "terrain", and generally acting like I've seen them in the wild. It's lateral line has gone from a pale yellow to white sometimes, but is currently solidly in the yellow-ish spectrum. It's dorsal fin is standing tall and undamaged.
I'm due for a tank transfer tonight, so I've gone ahead and dosed in 2.4mL of PraziPro.

I'm really sorry for your difficulties. It is rough when we rely on equipment with a great reputation and yet it lets us down.

 

[DLHDesign]

And - again - thank you to everyone for the help. I really appreciate it.

My take away from this loss, btw, is that I can't always trust a single source of information - especially not when things are abnormal. It's important, I have learned, to double-check everything - ideally with a second source, when possible. During this time (unrelated) I also noticed that my new RO/DI water was coming out of my system with a TDS upwards of 30. This happened overnight because I didn't notice that my DI resin in both canisters had run out. None of the water was used, but I did have to dump nearly 30gal of water (I try very hard not to waste water, being in CA, but I didn't have a use for this and needed the tank empty to make more RO/DI). So yeah - I'm glad I double-checked the TDS before using the water.

 

[melypr1985]

So yeah; I think ammonia exposure was to blame as the initial trigger.

Quite possible as well. I'm sorry for the losses

 

[DLHDesign]

Quite possible as well. I'm sorry for the losses

Thank you, Meredith. I appreciate all your help, as always.

 

[Humblefish]

Sorry I haven't been much help here. I'm in the process of moving and have been offline a lot lately.

 

[melypr1985]

Sorry I haven't been much help here. I'm in the process of moving and have been offline a lot lately.

We understand sweetie! Take care of your move and all that... we'll be here when you get back