Bommie Reef in Seagrass Bed

[Combs1ng]

So I wanted to pose a question to anyone with Seagrass experience. I've noticed there isn't a ton of reef setups out there with seagrasses in them. Ever since I saw a seagrass setup in an LFS years ago, I have always thought of setting one up. I am currently planning a large build and recently started a tank build thread. I am 95% settled on a biotope - an Indo-Pacific Bommie Reef surrounded by a seagrass bed. It will consist of a 412gallon peninsula style tank (or there abouts) with a vertical reef wall along the back sloping to a 3-6" sand bed(not determined yet) and a bommie reef-rock "island". For corals: predominately Pocillopora, Favia, Platygyra, Astreopora, a few Monti and Acropora a centerstage Sarcophyton or Lobophytum a few Zoas and maybe an Elegance amongst the seagrass. There will really be two focal points within the aquarium, the bommie reef island and the "Rest". I want this biotope to be a mini seagrass ecosystem revolving around the collective whole and not just the corals or fish. In actuality my plan is to have relatively few fish for this size system. Currently I have planned to house 25-30 fish (mostly small and consisting of fish from various regions such as the Indo-Pacific and Red Sea). I am thinking some striking contrasts such as: a small shoal of Yellow-tail Damsels (love their beauty) with a couple Yellow Coris wrasses; several orchid dottybacks and a neon dottyback or two; a radiant wrasse; possibly a Potters or Flame Angel, maybe a shoal of chromis and blennies/gobies; some other damsels such as Dascyllus Reticulatus; and a couple tangs: Blonde Naso, Gem and perhaps another. But I want just as much focus and interest on the few sea stars, several types of crabs (porcelain living amongst the Pocillopora), shrimp, and other invertebrates.

I am posting some inspirational pictures below to demonstrate what I am trying to achieve.

Some general questions and concerns I have: 1) I have read sea grasses are difficult to raise in the reef aquarium. The species I intend to keep are short species such as Halodule uninervis and Halophila Ovalis. Does anyone have insight on husbandry for these grasses. 2) Do these short seagrasses need to be routinely maintained in any way, ie. harvested, pruned, etc. 3) Does anyone see some immediate or overlooked issues with the projected tank setup? 4) Should i have worry with a DSB along with seagrasses, and what issues can I expect to have? I'm hoping the seagrass would mitigate the risk of nutrient build up (I also plan to have a large refugium system with chaeto and skimmer). 5) Any general advice, reference material or personal experience will be greatly appreciated.

 

[pcon]

I actually got to meet the seagrass guy over on reef central, amazing biotope tank inspirational when I started reefkeeping. Sea grasses are incredibly difficult. He said, their prefered nitrogen source is ammonia, so people who keep them often dose ammonia directly to the tank. Too dangerous for my blood.

 

[Combs1ng]

I actually got to meet the seagrass guy over on reef central, amazing biotope tank inspirational when I started reefkeeping. Sea grasses are incredibly difficult. He said, their prefered nitrogen source is ammonia, so people who keep them often dose ammonia directly to the tank. Too dangerous for my blood.

Thanks. I'll have to hit up the Seagrass Guy then and check out some of his posts. Sounds like I may be trying to build two conflicting systems: one being a low fish bioload(low ammonia) with skimmer and the other being the seagrass system requiring more ammonia. Hmmmmm, could be challenging but I wonder if anyone else has experience with this type of system working?

 

[Combs1ng]

I actually got to meet the seagrass guy over on reef central, amazing biotope tank inspirational when I started reefkeeping. Sea grasses are incredibly difficult. He said, their prefered nitrogen source is ammonia, so people who keep them often dose ammonia directly to the tank. Too dangerous for my blood.

Are you referring to Michael Hoaster when you say "seagrass guy"?

 

[fish farmer]

You should pick up a copy of Dynamic Aquaria, Building Living Ecosystems, by Walter Adey and Karen Loveland.

It is basically a text book about various aquatic ecosystems and how they function with chapters on various mesocosms, microcosms and small aquaria set up as functioning ecosystems. There was a 3000 gallon Caribbean Reef system set up at the Smithsonian in the mid 80's complete with a turtle grass lagoon that is discussed in the book as well as other chapters on marine systems.

 

[Combs1ng]

You should pick up a copy of Dynamic Aquaria, Building Living Ecosystems, by Walter Adey and Karen Loveland.

It is basically a text book about various aquatic ecosystems and how they function with chapters on various mesocosms, microcosms and small aquaria set up as functioning ecosystems. There was a 3000 gallon Caribbean Reef system set up at the Smithsonian in the mid 80's complete with a turtle grass lagoon that is discussed in the book as well as other chapters on marine systems.

Thank you, I'll look into the book right away. I'm surprised by how few posts have been made on the topic. I guess these seagrass biotopes truly are few and far between.

 

[flsalty]

I've been doing a lot of research for a Caribbean biotope similar to what you are describing, only with no SPS. Hoaster's thread is very informative. Unfortunately he elected to not keep any corals in that tank. Instead he focused on one seagrass species and various macro algae. Here is a R2R thread, which also concentrates on seagrasses.

Yes, these plants can use ammonia, but it's not required. However they do need lots of nitrogen. I think plant tabs would help with that. They use those in the link I provided. Hoaster tried them once, but his were old.

Another problem might be lighting as plants and corals need different lights. With LEDs it shouldn't be too hard. I've been looking to freshwater planted forums for some ideas on lighting, as well as fertilization.

My design requires a minimum of 6 inches for the DSB. I haven't looked into your Pacific species, but I know the shorter Caribbean species don't need that much depth, more like 3 inches.

You're right. There isn't a whole lot written about planted tanks, especially with seagrasses. I guess reef people don't see them as sexy. Unfortunately, my dream tank is still about a year off. Hopefully you'll be able to start yours sooner.

 

[Combs1ng]

I've been doing a lot of research for a Caribbean biotope similar to what you are describing, only with no SPS. Hoaster's thread is very informative. Unfortunately he elected to not keep any corals in that tank. Instead he focused on one seagrass species and various macro algae. Here is a R2R thread, which also concentrates on seagrasses.

Yes, these plants can use ammonia, but it's not required. However they do need lots of nitrogen. I think plant tabs would help with that. They use those in the link I provided. Hoaster tried them once, but his were old.

Another problem might be lighting as plants and corals need different lights. With LEDs it shouldn't be too hard. I've been looking to freshwater planted forums for some ideas on lighting, as well as fertilization.

My design requires a minimum of 6 inches for the DSB. I haven't looked into your Pacific species, but I know the shorter Caribbean species don't need that much depth, more like 3 inches.

You're right. There isn't a whole lot written about planted tanks, especially with seagrasses. I guess reef people don't see them as sexy. Unfortunately, my dream tank is still about a year off. Hopefully you'll be able to start yours sooner.

I'm in a similar situation. It may be close to a year before I see water but sounds like we have a similar goal in mind. After doing some reading it would seem that the grasses need ammonia and nitrates (for their nitrogen sources) but it almost seems counter-intuitive as evidenced in my pictures. There are seagrass and corals thriving right next to each other, and if the nitrates were higher in that area, the corals should be struggling. Perhaps the ocean current is enough to keep the actual water column low. I hope I'm not getting myself in over my head. I would hate to give up on this build dream just on the basis of it being difficult but if virtually no one else is replicating this system, there may be a reason. And I have very little experience relative to most on this site and in the hobby in general.

 

[fish farmer]

I'm in a similar situation. It may be close to a year before I see water but sounds like we have a similar goal in mind. After doing some reading it would seem that the grasses need ammonia and nitrates (for their nitrogen sources) but it almost seems counter-intuitive as evidenced in my pictures. There are seagrass and corals thriving right next to each other, and if the nitrates were higher in that area, the corals should be struggling. Perhaps the ocean current is enough to keep the actual water column low. I hope I'm not getting myself in over my head. I would hate to give up on this build dream just on the basis of it being difficult but if virtually no one else is replicating this system, there may be a reason. And I have very little experience relative to most on this site and in the hobby in general.

In reference to your inspiring photos, those sea grass beds are going to be the food source for grazing fishes which would be rooting down near the grass depositing wastes directly on the bottom where they would be processed. I would assume that designing a system with lower flow in the sea grass area and higher flow over the bommie area would simulate the natural process best.

 

[flsalty]

According to one article I read, these plants don't actually uptake much nutrients from the water. They take it in through the roots. The article also stated that there wasn't very high nitrates in the water in nature. I'll find that article and post it when I'm on my laptop. I'm sure it can be done. 40 years ago people didn't think corals could be kept alive in an aquarium by the average hobbyist.

 

[fish farmer]

According to one article I read, these plants don't actually uptake much nutrients from the water. They take it in through the roots. The article also stated that there wasn't very high nitrates in the water in nature. I'll find that article and post it when I'm on my laptop. I'm sure it can be done. 40 years ago people didn't think corals could be kept alive in an aquarium by the average hobbyist.

I also read that a mature sand bed is better, but from the Indian River lagoon display tank that doesn't seem to be the case necessarily, but they were adding fertilizer in the substrate.

 

[lapin]

Weeds

Weeds - Reef Central Online Community

Weeds Marine Plants & Macroalgae

reefcentral.com

 

[flsalty]

I also read that a mature sand bed is better, but from the Indian River lagoon display tank that doesn't seem to be the case necessarily, but they were adding fertilizer in the substrate.

They also used a mud product from CaribSea. I'm not sure how that particular product is made, but there are some Florida vendors that sell muck they've collected themselves. I think that muck and some sand collected directly from the ocean would equate to a mature sand bed.

 

[flsalty]

Here is an excellent article on seagrasses

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-04/sl/index.php

 

[Combs1ng]

In reference to your inspiring photos, those sea grass beds are going to be the food source for grazing fishes which would be rooting down near the grass depositing wastes directly on the bottom where they would be processed. I would assume that designing a system with lower flow in the sea grass area and higher flow over the bommie area would simulate the natural process best.

Yes, this is exactly what I was going to aim for. A fairly strong flow across the top and less so at the bottom. This also has me thinking I should keep the tank decently deep at 27" which should allow for more flexibility across circulation/flow methods. I feel the deeper the tank, the more options I leave myself for various flow equipment and patterns.

 

[Combs1ng]

Here is an excellent article on seagrasses

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-04/sl/index.php

Yes, thank you for this. I have come across this article and it was a great read. I wish I could find someone on here that has direct experience and longevity keeping seagrasses in the aquarium. I'm not even sure if the species I would want to keep are easily accessible. I have searched many of the main sites and have found some caribbean seagrasses and many macro algaes but haven't come across many Indo-pacific species.

 

[ZoWhat]

I would think 95% of all Reefers have some sort of Tang. Usually a Yellow.

I would think they would destroy sea grasses eating them non stop

 

[Combs1ng]

I would think 95% of all Reefers have some sort of Tang. Usually a Yellow.

I would think they would destroy sea grasses eating them non stop

This has crossed my mind and wasn't sure which species and to what degree they would necessarily eat the seagrasses. I figured only having a couple tangs at the most (even just 1). I wonder if I gave the grasses sufficient time to establish across the tank and the tang well-fed, if I could manage to keep the grasses. The additional food could also help to "fertilize" the sand bottom for the grasses to use. I'm hoping someone who has kept seagrasses in a tank with tangs may see this thread and be able to chime in. Various articles have been a lot of help but they still do not answer the multitude of specific questions I would have in terms of a shared coral and seagrass biotope.

 

[User]

Weeds

Weeds - Reef Central Online Community

Weeds Marine Plants & Macroalgae

reefcentral.com

That looks like an awesome thread- but I can't see pics!!!

 

[fish farmer]

That looks like an awesome thread- but I can't see pics!!!

I think you need to be a member to see pics. I couldn't see them initially, then I tried my old login and it worked!