bonding acrylic sheet "stacked" instead of perpendicular?

Treehrtsme · May 11, 2023

I've seen in some sumps like the octo reef where acrylic is bonded to the front of the sump to outline the chambers or when the top brace appears to be 2 different color sheets bonded together. How is this done? I've tried bonding scrap pieces to clear acrylic with Weldon, only to leave a mess of air bubbles. has anyone ever done this, or is there a particular method?

C4ctus99 · May 23, 2023

@Lowell Lemon ?

Treehrtsme · May 23, 2023

Experienced member? He's a low effort attempt a tried but the air bubbles seem like an issue. If it's 2 colored sheets I don't think the aesthetic issues would show. I thought about just applying a tiny b bit around the edges but my concern is is that water could get trapped in between any gaps. I did some research and could not find any information about a method for doing this it's kind of hard to phrase or explain exactly what I'm talking about and it doesn't seem to be something commonly done.

In this picture I welded it to clear acrylic to be able to see what it looked like on the underside. I believe I was using well done three and both attempts but I'm beginning to wonder if there's some sort of different adhesive they would use for this.

Any advice or ideas are greatly appreciated thank you

C4ctus99 · May 23, 2023

shrike said:
Experienced member? He's a low effort attempt a tried but the air bubbles seem like an issue. If it's 2 colored sheets I don't think the aesthetic issues would show. I thought about just applying a tiny b bit around the edges but my concern is is that water could get trapped in between any gaps. I did some research and could not find any information about a method for doing this it's kind of hard to phrase or explain exactly what I'm talking about and it doesn't seem to be something commonly done.

In this picture I welded it to clear acrylic to be able to see what it looked like on the underside. I believe I was using well done three and both attempts but I'm beginning to wonder if there's some sort of different adhesive they would use for this.

Any advice or ideas are greatly appreciated thank you

He’s built a lot of acrylic tanks.

@Joe Glass Cages or @Tenecor Aquariums could also probably help out, I know there are some others with acrylic experience but can’t remember

Lowell Lemon · May 24, 2023

There is a laminating adhesive that some people use. I have not used anything like that in years. I tried laminating thin acrylic as backgrounds for some experiments and they all bubbled over time. Lucky for me I experimented first and never offered them for sale. If you can control Weldon 42 it might work.

Justdrew · May 24, 2023

@Troylee may be able to help.

Troylee · May 24, 2023

Weldon 40/42 will give you a super clean lamination… if you use 40 you gotta let the mixture sit for several minutes and allow the micro bubbles to escape then pour it on and laminate you pieces together. It’s messy as it squeezes out around the edges but be will be a flawless lamination with correct clamping and weight distribution..

SteveMM62Reef · May 24, 2023

I have Laminated Panels on the Euro-Bracing and on the Side Panels. Perfectly Clear, I always wondered if they used Vacuum Pumps, and Vacuum Bags. Or if this was even possible with the Fumes from the Glue. At the Cabinet Shop, where I worked they Laminated Glued Plywood together, and used the vacuum system.

BeanAnimal · Jun 3, 2023

4 or 16 can be used as well, but you basically have to soak the pieces long enough to soften the surface into goo - then clamp with cauls and/or a vacuum bag. Honestly, unless you are going into manufacturing to part fools from their cash, I don’t see the attraction to doing this. Also, not sure what a display sump is, but I wouldn’t pay a penny for that fancy nonsense with crevices to collect crap and more to clean. Sumps get messy even in their simplest form, let alone trying to keep one detailed like a Ferrari. No thanks.

Treehrtsme · Jun 17, 2023

BeanAnimal said:
4 or 16 can be used as well, but you basically have to soak the pieces long enough to soften the surface into goo - then clamp with cauls and/or a vacuum bag. Honestly, unless you are going into manufacturing to part fools from their cash, I don’t see the attraction to doing this. Also, not sure what a display sump is, but I wouldn’t pay a penny for that fancy nonsense with crevices to collect crap and more to clean. Sumps get messy even in their simplest form, let alone trying to keep one detailed like a Ferrari. No thanks.

I don't really disagree the need. I had seen it done a by some companies and figured there's no way that can be as simple as some Weldon and clamps.

anything with water in it will get gross pretty quick especially with the crazy humidity we have in Atlanta. I had set up a five gallon with nothing but fresh saltwater to test and skimmers and such in and it didn't take but a week before I could tell it was getting weird

as far as the appeal, some people just get drawn to the fancy aesthetics of certain makers and drop over $1,000 on a sump without considering the price vs functionality ratio or the fact that it's going to be under your tank likely closed in a cabinet. I myself am a bit drawn to the fancy sumps I see builders make. To an extent I almost view it as a work of art or craftsmanship but at the end of the day if you actually want to use it it's going to get dirty and if you want to keep it clean it's going to take a lot of work and still in the end it's not going to stay looking perfect.

I personally enjoy doing the work itself. The mechanics, gear, plumbing and such intrigues me.

thanks for the advice. Don't think I'll be giving this one a shot on a serious build, but maybe some smaller components

thanks

TaylorPilot · Jul 21, 2023

shrike said:
I've seen in some sumps like the octo reef where acrylic is bonded to the front of the sump to outline the chambers or when the top brace appears to be 2 different color sheets bonded together. How is this done? I've tried bonding scrap pieces to clear acrylic with Weldon, only to leave a mess of air bubbles. has anyone ever done this, or is there a particular method?

I have been looking into this as well. I haven't seen any of these in person to see what the backside (clear side) looks like. The Synergy one is using opaque on both sides, so they probably don't have to have as bubble free a lamination (you can't see them). Weldon 42 would not be cost effective to laminate 2 - 4'x2' sheets. A lot of them look to be thicker PVC with inset acrylic panels that are hot gas welded like Royal exclusive. A vacuum back would make an awful mess as it squeezed out to the point of being a one time use.

Treehrtsme · Jul 21, 2023

TaylorPilot said:
I have been looking into this as well. I haven't seen any of these in person to see what the backside (clear side) looks like. The Synergy one is using opaque on both sides, so they probably don't have to have as bubble free a lamination (you can't see them). Weldon 42 would not be cost effective to laminate 2 - 4'x2' sheets. A lot of them look to be thicker PVC with inset acrylic panels that are hot gas welded like Royal exclusive. A vacuum back would make an awful mess as it squeezed out to the point of being a one time use.

I did some experimenting bonding acrylic to acrylic using different adhesives. One I tried was well done 16 versus plain PVC cement I'll post a picture, but the weld on 16 wouldn't spread well or evenly and actually did not hold the two together as well as the just plain old PVC cement. The PVC cement actually left cleaner looking Bond that I'd ever gotten with weld on. I was actually able to physically break off part of the piece bonded with 16 whereas the peace bonded with PVC cement was stuck solid on. As far as PVC to PVC goes just plain on PVC cement seems to create a very strong bond. I believe well done makes a product for PVC to acrylic though.

Troylee · Jul 21, 2023

shrike said:
I did some experimenting bonding acrylic to acrylic using different adhesives. One I tried was well done 16 versus plain PVC cement I'll post a picture, but the weld on 16 wouldn't spread well or evenly and actually did not hold the two together as well as the just plain old PVC cement. The PVC cement actually left cleaner looking Bond that I'd ever gotten with weld on. I was actually able to physically break off part of the piece bonded with 16 whereas the peace bonded with PVC cement was stuck solid on. As far as PVC to PVC goes just plain on PVC cement seems to create a very strong bond. I believe well done makes a product for PVC to acrylic though.

Use Weldon 40 or 42 it’s designed for laminating sheets together. It’s really simple lol.. I do this for a living.

Treehrtsme · Jul 21, 2023

Troylee said:
Use Weldon 40 or 42 it’s designed for laminating sheets together. It’s really simple lol.. I do this for a living.

I never doubted you, don't get me wrong l, I was just reporting on some ideas I'd heard elsewhere

Troylee · Jul 22, 2023

shrike said:
I never doubted you, don't get me wrong l, I was just reporting on some ideas I'd heard elsewhere

16 is horrible and I don’t even know why it’s made honestly lol… pvc glue on acrylic? Never tried it but I wouldn’t build a tank with it haha… solvents are best for butt joints and 40-42 which is a 2 part resin is good for the rest.

Treehrtsme · Jul 22, 2023

Troylee said:
16 is horrible and I don’t even know why it’s made honestly lol… pvc glue on acrylic? Never tried it but I wouldn’t build a tank with it haha… solvents are best for butt joints and 40-42 which is a 2 part resin is good for the rest.

40/42 is a bit harder to work with because you have to have a small gap to put it in, right? Like cutting edges at a slight angle so it's not clean surface to surface. You can't just use it pin method like 3/4 correct? I have some but I honestly misplaced it and don't want to mix to 2 part just yet because of shelf life. I've heard different things but recently 3/4 has been giving me some trouble.

Troylee · Jul 22, 2023

shrike said:
40/42 is a bit harder to work with because you have to have a small gap to put it in, right? Like cutting edges at a slight angle so it's not clean surface to surface. You can't just use it pin method like 3/4 correct? I have some but I honestly misplaced it and don't want to mix to 2 part just yet because of shelf life. I've heard different things but recently 3/4 has been giving me some trouble.

If you were building a very large tank with super thick acrylic sure… I thought we were laminating 2 sheets together??? If you’re just building a sump or something and standing the acrylic on edge to glue to a flat piece then yes 3 or 4 is what you wanna use with the pins and needles method. P