Brackish water world, let’s begin!

[ams_reef]

Going to really have to disagree with a lot you are saying because it is simply not true.

Yes, many anadromous and euryhaline species can easily adjust to widely differing levels of salinity. Monos, scats, columbian sharks etc are all good examples. Many of the species you are listing simply do not fall into this category. There are species such as ropefish, glassfish, bumble bee gobies etc. that are naturally occur in bodies of water close enough to an ocean that allow some small amount of seawater to travel up certain river ways and disperse to surrounding areas. These are commonly referred to as “low-end brackish” species. Please refer to any Neale Monks literature if you are looking for any certifiable literature on the subject. These low-end species do tolerate small amounts of salt quite well and may adjust temporarily to higher salinities, but they most likely will die unnecessarily soon under full marine conditions.

Bumble bee gobies are not going to be healthy in full marine salinity. Many species are purely freshwater and prefer black water conditions, never seeing a drop of salt in their lives. A simple fish base search will show that there are no bumble bee gobies living full marine conditions.Brachygobius Species. Same thing with
Figure 8 Puffers, clearly says not a brackish species.

 

[The guppy guru]

Going to really have to disagree with a lot you are saying because it is simply not true.

Yes, many anadromous and euryhaline species can easily adjust to widely differing levels of salinity. Monos, scats, columbian sharks etc are all good examples. Many of the species you are listing simply do not fall into this category. There are species such as ropefish, glassfish, bumble bee gobies etc. that are naturally occur in bodies of water close enough to an ocean that allow some small amount of seawater to travel up certain river ways and disperse to surrounding areas. These are commonly referred to as “low-end brackish” species. Please refer to any Neale Monks literature if you are looking for any certifiable literature on the subject. These low-end species do tolerate small amounts of salt quite well and may adjust temporarily to higher salinities, but they most likely will die unnecessarily soon under full marine conditions.

Bumble bee gobies are not going to be healthy in full marine salinity. Many species are purely freshwater and prefer black water conditions, never seeing a drop of salt in their lives. A simple fish base search will show that there are no bumble bee gobies living full marine conditions.Brachygobius Species. Same thing with
Figure 8 Puffers, clearly says not a brackish species.

I wasn’t talking about bumble bee gobies, or figure 8 puffers.

 

[ams_reef]

On this thread we will discuss about the general brackish water fish that would look absolutely wonderful in a reef. Some of these include guppies, mollies, sword tails, some species of danios, some species of kilifish, mono fish, green spotted puffer, figure 8 puffer, scatts, dragon goby, bumblebee goby, bumblebee grouper, and a small species of moray eel. All of these fish can live in freshwater and saltwater thought some of these may not fare well in saltwater so keep this in mind fish like guppies and mollies, aren’t as strong as they use to be. But fish like the grouper and mono fish need to live their adult lives in saltwater to extend their life time.

I’m confused then, see above?

 

[ams_reef]

In my experience figure 8 puffers are pretty reef safe with the exception of small to medium inverts. They can handle the flow well but I do not recommend keeping them in a high flow tank, they might get tiered and become food for more aggressive fish.

Again? Am I misreading what you are saying?

 

[The guppy guru]

An

Going to really have to disagree with a lot you are saying because it is simply not true.

Yes, many anadromous and euryhaline species can easily adjust to widely differing levels of salinity. Monos, scats, columbian sharks etc are all good examples. Many of the species you are listing simply do not fall into this category. There are species such as ropefish, glassfish, bumble bee gobies etc. that are naturally occur in bodies of water close enough to an ocean that allow some small amount of seawater to travel up certain river ways and disperse to surrounding areas. These are commonly referred to as “low-end brackish” species. Please refer to any Neale Monks literature if you are looking for any certifiable literature on the subject. These low-end species do tolerate small amounts of salt quite well and may adjust temporarily to higher salinities, but they most likely will die unnecessarily soon under full marine conditions.

Bumble bee gobies are not going to be healthy in full marine salinity. Many species are purely freshwater and prefer black water conditions, never seeing a drop of salt in their lives. A simple fish base search will show that there are no bumble bee gobies living full marine conditions.Brachygobius Species. Same thing with
Figure 8 Puffers, clearly says not a brackish species.

and yeah I now see that they aren’t a brackish water fish, but to be honest when I search up figure 8 puffer all I see is website after websites arguing over whether this fish is fresh or brackish. I have done this keeping a figure 8 puffer in full marine conditions and he lived a long life of about 13 years. Which is just 2 years short of their life expectancy. What I’m trying to say is the fish I recommended at “ first”, mollies, guppies, green spotted puffer and figure 8 puffer, I recommended because I had had success with them before. The guppies and mollies bred in my sps dominated reef many times( I keep short fin types of these fish to minimize stress caused by flow). The puffers lived long healthy lives based on terrorizing my cleanup crew but hey, they lived long and happily, they never struggled to swim or breath. Never puffed up, always ate and interacted with their environment, and over all lived nice lives. I have now learned the hard way that you cannot recommend a fish you have not kept or had success with before. That is why I made this thread to show people the new and improved version of me. Plus that other guy makes me annoyed he’s been going threw my threads like a thread police and telling me how wrong I was BEFORE. I’ve changed, it might have been a hard lesson for me but I know now what I can and cannot do.

 

[The guppy guru]

Again? Am I misreading what you are saying?

* gulp * I have no excuse for that trust me I’m trying to do my best people like you are the people I want to meet so that you can explain your greater knowledge to me the stupid one. Ok thanks for your thought and I will be more considered about what I put on my threads.

 

[ams_reef]

This is rather strange thread....

Anyways, doing more research before proclaiming certain freshwater or lightly brackish species are “reef safe” would serve you well. Ichthyology backed studies and collections of fish in their natural habitats will undoubtedly be a better reference point than reading through hobbyist forums to decide what or where a certain species resides in.

 

[The guppy guru]

This is rather strange thread....

Anyways, doing more research before proclaiming certain freshwater or lightly brackish species are “reef safe” would serve you well. Ichthyology backed studies and collections of fish in their natural habitats will undoubtedly be a better reference point than reading through hobbyist forums to decide what or where a certain species resides in.

Yes I understand I will do more research. Thanks

 

[Hermie]

Ever seen a Monodactylus kottelati for sale?

 

[Hermie]

The puffers lived long healthy lives based on terrorizing my cleanup crew but hey, they lived long and happily, they never struggled to swim or breath. Never puffed up, always ate and interacted with their environment, and over all lived nice lives. I have now learned the hard way that you cannot recommend a fish you have not kept or had success with before.

I have 2 GSPs now, one adult one juvenile; they are awesome and very different behaviorally given their maturity. It's just tough because it's easy to "overfeed" them, so I have a chronic algae problem.

 

[BZOFIQ]

Going to really have to disagree with a lot you are saying because it is simply not true.

Yes, many anadromous and euryhaline species can easily adjust to widely differing levels of salinity. Monos, scats, columbian sharks etc are all good examples. Many of the species you are listing simply do not fall into this category. There are species such as ropefish, glassfish, bumble bee gobies etc. that are naturally occur in bodies of water close enough to an ocean that allow some small amount of seawater to travel up certain river ways and disperse to surrounding areas. These are commonly referred to as “low-end brackish” species. Please refer to any Neale Monks literature if you are looking for any certifiable literature on the subject. These low-end species do tolerate small amounts of salt quite well and may adjust temporarily to higher salinities, but they most likely will die unnecessarily soon under full marine conditions.

Bumble bee gobies are not going to be healthy in full marine salinity. Many species are purely freshwater and prefer black water conditions, never seeing a drop of salt in their lives. A simple fish base search will show that there are no bumble bee gobies living full marine conditions.Brachygobius Species. Same thing with
Figure 8 Puffers, clearly says not a brackish species.

I thank you very much for for your input here.

 

[The guppy guru]

People on this thread we will now focus on only 4 specific fish here are the following, guppies, mollies, green spotted puffers, and mono fish.
We will now focus on these specific fish due to their natural environment. These fish matchup as close to a reef fish out there. ( for brackish water ) . These fish will be accompanied with hopefully some inverts but I will have to look into that. Well thanks to all the wonderful people who pointed out my mistakes and helped me fix them. Alright happy reefing.

 

[MombasaLionfish]

People on this thread we will now focus on only 4 specific fish here are the following, guppies, mollies, green spotted puffers, and mono fish.
We will now focus on these specific fish due to their natural environment. These fish matchup as close to a reef fish out there. ( for brackish water ) . These fish will be accompanied with hopefully some inverts but I will have to look into that. Well thanks to all the wonderful people who pointed out my mistakes and helped me fix them. Alright happy reefing.

I'm glad you learn from your mistakes some people come here for help but don't want to hear that they are doing it all wrong.

 

[The guppy guru]

I'm glad you learn from your mistakes some people come here for help but don't want to hear that they are doing it all wrong.

Yes I’d rather stick to the stuff I know rather than giving people options that don’t exist. Hopefully our only 4 fish we shall talk about will simplify things.

 

[BZOFIQ]

So we are back to classifying guppies as saltwater species? oh boy

 

[AC1211]

The gestation period appears to be a few days shorted in saltwater with more birth defects and shorter lifespan for guppies. Including wild collected brackish specimens. Pure captive bred variants suffer far worse than the wild caught variey in saltwater. The wild caught variant is still not fully healthy even when acclimated to saltwater over the course of a year. The babies seem to have similar long term problems and never seem to make it two years old. This was in tanks with just guppies changed to saltwater. I also got more information from a guy who feeds live fish to his lionfish - damsels are the best live treat food for lionfish where silversides cannot be fed but some chromis and damsels may take months to get caught by the lionfish. However upon using guppies and mollies as treats the lionfish needed less treat feedings and more silversides and ghost shrimp due to less nutritional value however they were still decent feeder options. He did however do much better at providing molly colonies breeding in saltwater for his lionfish in seperate tanks than he did with guppies. All anecdotal evidence but if given a chance I would love to test some myself this was after asking 2 lfs owners who worked on this and my uncle.

 

[AC1211]

Although after seeing their results and recommendation to only use them as feeders or mollies as algae eaters in frag systems I may not. Mollies do fare much better than guppies in all of their saltwater systems however. Also it seems impossible to bring guppies back to freshwater after living in saltwater they seemingly just die once the salinity dips under 1.015.

 

[AC1211]

I want to get mollies for this tank to see for myself but its just not practical. Guppies that are wild type which have very different genomes at this point from captive bred variants could be kept in brackish water but I do not think long term saltwater keeping is acceptable outside of lionfish food. I am however willing to test it for myself at somepoint.

 

[ams_reef]

People on this thread we will now focus on only 4 specific fish here are the following, guppies, mollies, green spotted puffers, and mono fish.
We will now focus on these specific fish due to their natural environment. These fish matchup as close to a reef fish out there. ( for brackish water ) . These fish will be accompanied with hopefully some inverts but I will have to look into that. Well thanks to all the wonderful people who pointed out my mistakes and helped me fix them. Alright happy reefing.

Saying guppies are saltwater is misguided.

Poecilia reticulata or the common guppy is only occasionally found in brackish water through its natural range and introduced range. They prefer the edges of shallow, slow moving bodies of water lots of vegetation. Thinks ponds, lakes, streams etc. They do occasionally find themselves out in lagoons and estuaries and might even occasionally slip all the way out to sea. Species that do somehow slip out to sea I presume don’t live long given the high water flow and limited cover isn’t their preferred habitat. They are extremely hardy and do have the ability to tolerate many salinities and even hypersalinity. This is not the norm in their natural range however, because they might be tolerant of these conditions and does not imply they should be kept in these conditions. Similar to the way a hardy species of African cichlid might tolerate an acidic pH, it’s not preferable. Please check the CABI Invasive species guide, FishBase Guppy Page, and many others confirming these are very much primarily a freshwater fish that sometimes inhabits brackish water and extremely rarely finds itself in full marine salinity. Not to mention these findings are show wild and introduced guppies in those ranges, these are definitely not the same guppies you’re picking up at an LFS. Guppies that you purchase from aquariums could be literally thousands of generations long being bred into pure freshwater never seeing any salt in their lifetimes, making them even less equipped for saltwater conversion.

Yes, people can and have kept guppies in saltwater with varying levels of success. Many don’t survive the acclimation, have reduced offspring numbers, have various ailments etc. Some seem fine. Just because something can do something do it mean we should do it? Taking a very hardy species tolerances to the end of its preferred range over the long term doesn’t seem to be a smart move for any aquarist.

 

[The guppy guru]

Saying guppies are saltwater is misguided.

Poecilia reticulata or the common guppy is only occasionally found in brackish water through its natural range and introduced range. They prefer the edges of shallow, slow moving bodies of water lots of vegetation. Thinks ponds, lakes, streams etc. They do occasionally find themselves out in lagoons and estuaries and might even occasionally slip all the way out to sea. Species that do somehow slip out to sea I presume don’t live long given the high water flow and limited cover isn’t their preferred habitat. They are extremely hardy and do have the ability to tolerate many salinities and even hypersalinity. This is not the norm in their natural range however, because they might be tolerant of these conditions and does not imply they should be kept in these conditions. Similar to the way a hardy species of African cichlid might tolerate an acidic pH, it’s not preferable. Please check the CABI Invasive species guide, FishBase Guppy Page, and many others confirming these are very much primarily a freshwater fish that sometimes inhabits brackish water and extremely rarely finds itself in full marine salinity. Not to mention these findings are show wild and introduced guppies in those ranges, these are definitely not the same guppies you’re picking up at an LFS. Guppies that you purchase from aquariums could be literally thousands of generations long being bred into pure freshwater never seeing any salt in their lifetimes, making them even less equipped for saltwater conversion.

Yes, people can and have kept guppies in saltwater with varying levels of success. Many don’t survive the acclimation, have reduced offspring numbers, have various ailments etc. Some seem fine. Just because something can do something do it mean we should do it? Taking a very hardy species tolerances to the end of its preferred range over the long term doesn’t seem to be a smart move for any aquarist.

I never said they were saltwater fish I am talking about brackish water fish. I know that guppies mollies monos, andgreen spotted puffers aren’t saltwater fish.