Breakout box won't trigger salt pump in to turn on.

[14 foot reef]

Breakout box won't trigger salt pump in to turn on.
I have a common float switch hooked to one of my breakout boxes. If my sump low triggers, it will turn off my main feed pump. But I can not get it to turn on my "Salt water in" pump on another EB832, nor can I get it to turn on my sump light.

It will turn off and on a big MRC 6100 but it won't turn on my sump light or salt in pump.
Here is my programming

This is main pump program and functions perfectly

Fallback ON
Set ON
If FeedA 000 Then OFF
If SMPLO2 CLOSED Then OFF
If HW13_1 OPEN Then OFF
If HW13_2 OPEN Then OFF
If LD14_3 CLOSED Then OFF
If LD14_4 CLOSED Then OFF

Here is "salt in pump" program

If SMPLO2 CLOSED Then ON

This is so simple, why doesn't it turn pump on? I can manual turn on this pump from APEX, It just won't except a command code.

Thanks in advance

 

[Sdbuehler1]

Breakout box won't trigger salt pump in to turn on.
I have a common float switch hooked to one of my breakout boxes. If my sump low triggers, it will turn off my main feed pump. But I can not get it to turn on my "Salt water in" pump on another EB832, nor can I get it to turn on my sump light.

It will turn off and on a big MRC 6100 but it won't turn on my sump light or salt in pump.
Here is my programming

This is main pump program and functions perfectly

Fallback ON
Set ON
If FeedA 000 Then OFF
If SMPLO2 CLOSED Then OFF
If HW13_1 OPEN Then OFF
If HW13_2 OPEN Then OFF
If LD14_3 CLOSED Then OFF
If LD14_4 CLOSED Then OFF

Here is "salt in pump" program

If SMPLO2 CLOSED Then ON

This is so simple, why doesn't it turn pump on? I can manual turn on this pump from APEX, It just won't except a command code.

Thanks in advance

Do you have a set statement above that? You could try doing the opposite by having the pump set to on by default and then turn it off when the sensor is open

Set ON
If SMPLO2 OPEN Then OFF

 

[14 foot reef]

Do you have a set statement above that? You could try doing the opposite by having the pump set to on by default and then turn it off when the sensor is open

Set ON
If SMPLO2 OPEN Then OFF

That’s a good idea, but would there be any down side to a set on command for topping off sump? What if it just set on and dumped 50 gallons from my reservoir into the sump ?

 

[Sdbuehler1]

That’s a good idea, but would there be any down side to a set on command for topping off sump? What if it just set on and dumped 50 gallons from my reservoir into the sump ?

there are other statements you can add to prevent the pump from running constant. I am using the apex ato kit which comes with 2 optical sensors for redundancy but in the setup there are some additional recommended programming lines

When On > 005:00 Then OFF

This tells the pump to run no more than 5 minutes

Defer 000:10 Then ON
Defer 000:04 Then OFF

These two lines tell the pump to wait a certain time before turning on or off which prevents fast switching on/off of the pump in the scenario where the water level is right at the sensor level

Min Time 060:00 Then OFF

This line tells the pump to wait an hour before it can run again

So in summary the pump will only run at most once per hour and when it does turn on it will run for 5 mins max. You would need to tweak these settings to the capabilities of your pump but this should help prevent it from just going nuts. The apex ato pump (PMUP) is a tiny pump though so it would have to run for an hour or so before it would start to cause a major salinity swing from topping off with too much fresh water. I think your concerns are valid if you are using a much more powerful pump that could do a lot of damage if it went on erroneously even for just a few minutes.

 

[14 foot reef]

Let’s stay focused on why the command won’t turn the salt pump in on.
What’s keeping “salt in pump” from turning on when breakout box clearly works for turning large pump off.

 

[14 foot reef]

there are other statements you can add to prevent the pump from running constant. I am using the apex ato kit which comes with 2 optical sensors for redundancy but in the setup there are some additional recommended programming lines

When On > 005:00 Then OFF

This tells the pump to run no more than 5 minutes

Defer 000:10 Then ON
Defer 000:04 Then OFF

These two lines tell the pump to wait a certain time before turning on or off which prevents fast switching on/off of the pump in the scenario where the water level is right at the sensor level

Min Time 060:00 Then OFF

This line tells the pump to wait an hour before it can run again

So in summary the pump will only run at most once per hour and when it does turn on it will run for 5 mins max. You would need to tweak these settings to the capabilities of your pump but this should help prevent it from just going nuts. The apex ato pump (PMUP) is a tiny pump though so it would have to run for an hour or so before it would start to cause a major salinity swing from topping off with too much fresh water. I think your concerns are valid if you are using a much more powerful pump that could do a lot of damage if it went on erroneously even for just a few minutes.

There good ideas here thank you.

Why do you think it simply just won’t turn on this simple small pump ?

Thoughts on that ?

 

[Sdbuehler1]

There good ideas here thank you.

Why do you think it simply just won’t turn on this simple small pump ?

Thoughts on that ?

That is odd.. so just to be clear, outlet is set to AUTO and the single IF statement doesn’t turn it on even when the statement is true? Does putting in just the statement “Set ON” turn it on? Also is the outlet control type set to Advanced?

Apex has added a lot of built in control types and there is one for ATO that is intended for a break out box. Have you tried using the ATO control type instead for the outlet?

 

[14 foot reef]

That is odd.. so just to be clear, outlet is set to AUTO and the single IF statement doesn’t turn it on even when the statement is true? Does putting in just the statement “Set ON” turn it on? Also is the outlet control type set to Advanced?

Apex has added a lot of built in control types and there is one for ATO that is intended for a break out box. Have you tried using the ATO control type instead for the outlet?

So just to be clear, outlet is set to AUTO - Answer = Outlet Set to Auto
single IF statement doesn’t turn it on even when the statement is true- Answer = Does NOT come on when float switch is closed
Does putting in just the statement “Set ON” turn it on? - Answer = Yes you can turn it on by manually turning on switch on Apex dashboard
Also is the outlet control type set to Advanced? - Answer = Yes set to advanced with this simple code written - If SMPLO2 CLOSED Then ON

 

[Sdbuehler1]

I’m stumped on this one, might be worth reaching out to apex Neptune support.

 

[14 foot reef]

I’m stumped on this one, might be worth reaching out to apex Neptune support.

Cant even get the sumplo2 to turn sump light on......Something has to be trumping the code and overwriting it

Code as follows

Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If SMPLO2 CLOSED Then ON
If SMPLO2 OPEN Then OFF

 

[SnowyFox]

Cant even get the sumplo2 to turn sump light on......Something has to be trumping the code and overwriting it

Code as follows

Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If SMPLO2 CLOSED Then ON
If SMPLO2 OPEN Then OFF

As a debugging step, maybe try adding that code to another output on your apex briefly to see if the code will work there. If it works on a different output, then it does sound like something is taking priority over the code you wrote. If it still doesn't work, then that would potentially indicate an error in your code.

I just got an apex a few days ago, so I haven't had a chance to learn the language / syntax that the apex uses, or any of the little quirks it has yet. I'm a software engineer by day, so really looking forward to poking around with what all I can do with it sometime soon

 

[SnowyFox]

Another debugging idea would be to swap OPEN and CLOSED to see if it will do anything different with the values reversed.

If SMPLO2 OPEN Then ON
If SMPLO2 CLOSED Then OFF

 

[14 foot reef]

Another debugging idea would be to swap OPEN and CLOSED to see if it will do anything different with the values reversed.

If SMPLO2 OPEN Then ON
If SMPLO2 CLOSED Then OFF

great Idea, my worries on that was failing and dumping 50 gallons of saltwater in the sump and overflowing

 

[SnowyFox]

great Idea, my worries on that was failing and dumping 50 gallons of saltwater in the sump and overflowing

Is your pump just plugged into an outlet on the EB832? If so, just unplug the pump while working on and testing the code. You could plug something else into it for testing, like a lamp, or just look at the little indicator light on the unit to see if the outlet is switching on / off

 

[SnowyFox]

Also, I would HIGHLY suggest adding a float valve to the sump for your salt water line to act as a failsafe should the apex ever do what all computer systems are notorious for (crashing, having buggy code, human error, etc.). Should things not shut off when they are supposed to, a float valve should pinch the line closed to stop water from flowing on the line.

There is a pretty well written tutorial on how to program something very similar using the Neptune branded ATK kit. The code and principles should all be directly relatable with what you're trying to do, along with extra lines of code that will help add some protection for sensors failing
https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/neptu...torials-part-3-automatic-top-off-kit-atk.692/

 

[14 foot reef]

Is your pump just plugged into an outlet on the EB832? If so, just unplug the pump while working on and testing the code. You could plug something else into it for testing, like a lamp, or just look at the little indicator light on the unit to see if the outlet is switching on / off

Did all that and added just a AI fuge sump light to the mix. Wont eve turn that on. EB832 is fuctioning properly

 

[SnowyFox]

Did all that and added just a AI fuge sump light to the mix. Wont eve turn that on. EB832 is fuctioning properly

Is there any chance the name of your switch is misspelled? (Letter O vs Number 0) SMPLO2 vs SMPL02

 

[Dburr1014]

So just to be clear, outlet is set to AUTO - Answer = Outlet Set to Auto
single IF statement doesn’t turn it on even when the statement is true- Answer = Does NOT come on when float switch is closed
Does putting in just the statement “Set ON” turn it on? - Answer = Yes you can turn it on by manually turning on switch on Apex dashboard
Also is the outlet control type set to Advanced? - Answer = Yes set to advanced with this simple code written - If SMPLO2 CLOSED Then ON

I think it needs to have code:

Fallback off
Set off

I'm not 100% sure on this but it needs to know the state it's in first doesn't it? I sure wish Suncrestreef was still around, LOL.

 

[14 foot reef]

I think it needs to have code:

Fallback off
Set off

I'm not 100% sure on this but it needs to know the state it's in first doesn't it? I sure wish Suncrestreef was still around, LOL.

This is the code

Code as follows

Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If SMPLO2 CLOSED Then ON
If SMPLO2 OPEN Then OFF

 

[14 foot reef]

Is there any chance the name of your switch is misspelled? (Letter O vs Number 0) SMPLO2 vs SMPL02

No because it auto populated from drop down in the apex code writing