Brightwell Boost pH+

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'd like to suggest that you drop the Brightwell product Boost pH+ from your product line since it is misleading consumers about what it can do.

Clearly, it cannot do what you (on your web site) and they claim.

Brightwell Aquatics Boost pH+, 250ml | Premium Aquatics

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premiumaquatics.com

"High Range pH Increaser deals with excess CO2, raises pH only without increasing alkalinity or calcium (in tanks already having a proper dKH)"

"Warning: Contains caustic sodium and potassium hydroxides;"

So, the product contains hydroxide (the actual active ingredient), and yet does not increase alkalinity.

That is, of course, simply not true, as folks supplementing calcium and alkalinity using kalkwasser can attest.

Hydroxide instantly boosts alkalinity.

Please either drop this product, or have Brightwell change their label and their advertising copy on your sales web site.

 

[DrDirt]

This type of advertising is the bane of the hobby IMO. It gets people to spend more money on an already expensive hobby with minimal tangible benefit to them. Seven dollars on 250mL of product that will raise pH and alkalinity for a relatively short period of time without truly addressing excess carbon dioxide in the system holistically. Seems like if you used much of this you would actually end up suppressing calcium concentrations

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

how much do you want to bet this product line has seen a significant increase in sales in this recent PH focused era in the hobby, it seems like PH is all anyone talks about anymore, it's definitely always listed in "HELP!" posts as if it's the deciding factor for a successful system.

I'm sure with the more recent influx of revenue from this product, it doesn't encourage them to change much, especially that magic sales pitch about only effecting PH.

I agree that it is misleading and obviously impossible, this could also be easy enough to test and prove not to be true, so not sure the reason for the exact claim.

they could easily add:

"High Range pH Increaser deals with excess CO2, raises pH, possibly increasing alkalinity or calcium (in tanks already having a proper dKH)"

 

[GlassMunky]

I’m curious why you are petitioning Premium Aquatics about this and not Brightwell, the manufacturer. If they are just a reseller like every other reef supply company then they just buy and sell existing products and have no control over what those products claim.
And usually when you order from these companies they make you get their whole product line, not just the one or 2 products you want.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I’m curious why you are petitioning Premium Aquatics about this and not Brightwell, the manufacturer. If they are just a reseller like every other reef supply company then they just buy and sell existing products and have no control over what those products claim.
And usually when you order from these companies they make you get their whole product line, not just the one or 2 products you want.

I have asked both. If a retail company choses to continue selling a product with false advertising, it is on them as well as the manufacturer who provided the claims, IMO.

FWIW, Aquavitro has replied with a false answer (detailed in the main forum) but Brightwell has not yet responded.

 

[GlassMunky]

I have asked both. If a retail company choses to continue selling a product with false advertising, it is on them as well as the manufacturer who provided the claims, IMO.

FWIW, Aquavitro has replied with a false answer (detailed in the main forum) but Brightwell has not yet responded.

I’m gonna disagree with you partially there.
If premium aquatics wants to keep selling brightwell products then they may not have the ability to not stock certain items from their line as is the case with lots of resellers.
thats just the way these corporations work.

I don’t think you can just blindly attribute negligence in cases like this, at least to premium. Brightwell, sure as they are the ones actually producing the product.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I’m gonna disagree with you partially there.
If premium aquatics wants to keep selling brightwell products then they may not have the ability to not stock certain items from their line as is the case with lots of resellers.
thats just the way these corporations work.

I don’t think you can just blindly attribute negligence in cases like this, at least to premium. Brightwell, sure as they are the ones actually producing the product.

Then we just disagree, and you are seemingly at odds with laws in the US. I do agree that resellers are not expected to fact check all claims they post on their web site that are provided by manufacturers, but when alerted to a false claim, they have a resonsibility to investigate and/or do something about it.

Retailer vs Manufacturer Liability For Product Claims - Hilfer Law

The calculation is not simple when it comes to retailer vs manufacturer liability for advertising claims. On January 30, 2020, Kyle-Beth Hilfer will speak on "Differentiating Substantiation Requirements for Manufacturers and Retailers."

kbhilferlaw.com

Retailer vs Manufacturer Liability For Product Claims
"Indeed, a string of cases have held various third parties liable for false advertising because the parties adopted advertising claims from the manufacturer. "

 

[GlassMunky]

Then we just disagree, and you are seemingly at odds with laws in the US. I do agree that resellers are not expected to fact check all claims they post on their web site that are provided by manufacturers, but when alerted to a false claim, they have a resonsibility to investigate and/or do something about it.

Retailer vs Manufacturer Liability For Product Claims - Hilfer Law

The calculation is not simple when it comes to retailer vs manufacturer liability for advertising claims. On January 30, 2020, Kyle-Beth Hilfer will speak on "Differentiating Substantiation Requirements for Manufacturers and Retailers."

kbhilferlaw.com

Retailer vs Manufacturer Liability For Product Claims
"Indeed, a string of cases have held various third parties liable for false advertising because the parties adopted advertising claims from the manufacturer. "

you're right i absolutely disagree with that law. I dont think it should the retailers job to do that, it should up to the manufacturer. retailers have thousands (if not tens of thousands or sometimes more) of items they sell, they cant be expected to research every single claim made on every single product they sell. thats putting an erroneous amount of extra effort on them that should have already been done in accordance to the laws by the manufacturer, and they put these things out in good faith that that has happened and what is said is true.
Again, just my opinion.

 

[GlassMunky]

And then if something happens like this where your'e alerting them to false claims, I don't think they should be expected to do much more than contact the manufacturer and see what they say about the situation, since its again, the manufacturer whos making the claims about the product, not the reseller.

Do you expect every seller who gets an email from some random person saying "thats false advertising" to stop selling the products immediately? I get that you're a chemist and know what youre talking about but at the same time, you're not an official for any govt body or with any actual authority to prove that its actually false advertising without a judge deciding that.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

And then if something happens like this where your'e alerting them to false claims, I don't think they should be expected to do much more than contact the manufacturer and see what they say about the situation, since its again, the manufacturer whos making the claims about the product, not the reseller.

Do you expect every seller who gets an email from some random person saying "thats false advertising" to stop selling the products immediately? I get that you're a chemist and know what youre talking about but at the same time, you're not an official for any govt body or with any actual authority to prove that its actually false advertising without a judge deciding that.

Yes, if I were a reseller, I'd contact the manufacturer if someone claimed a product could not do what they say.

What'd I'd do as a reseller after that would depend on what the manufacturer said in response, how competent I felt in assessing the claims on either side (which reasonably could range from not at all to an abundantly clear answer) , and what the implications were of various steps that might or might not be done by me as reseller. .

I expect that Jack Kent, being a reasonable person, will ultimately make some changes to the product description, based on past experiences with similar similar issues, and I also expect Seachem aquavitro to do nothing based on their current response and previous experience. Premium Aquatics does not sell aquavitro products, so that is not their concern.

How we as consumers can help correct the aquavitro line is more complicated, but as was shown in the Vibrant case, consumers are not without power of their own if product manufacturers cannot convince users of the veracity of claims.

 

[premiumaquatics]

Hi, Sorry didn't see this post until today. We certainly will reach out to Brightwell and get an official answer from them. Their additive line is just huge, so it's difficult for us to keep tabs on every product they sell, but we certainly to remove products that have a poor customer satisfaction rating or misleading claims. We just do not know enough on this product to say one way or another, so we will do our research for sure and post an official response that we receive.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hi, Sorry didn't see this post until today. We certainly will reach out to Brightwell and get an official answer from them. Their additive line is just huge, so it's difficult for us to keep tabs on every product they sell, but we certainly to remove products that have a poor customer satisfaction rating or misleading claims. We just do not know enough on this product to say one way or another, so we will do our research for sure and post an official response that we receive.

Thank you.