Experimental testing of Brightwell Boost pH +

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

This is the proposed experiment:

1. take some reef tank water, that is in the pH range that needs raising, say, pH 7.8 to 8.2, and has alkalinity in the range you suggest (7.7 to 10 dKH)
2. some artificial seawater that is in the pH range that needs raising, say, 7.8 to 8.2, and has alkalinity in the range you suggest (7.7 to 10 dKH)
3. Measure alkalinity of both samples
4. add boost pH + until the pH rises 0.3 pH units
5. Remeasure alkalinity

Do the same test with sodium hydroxide to see if the proprietary base impacts the alk rise.

 

[Miami Reef]

I ordered Brightwell pH+. Will be here Tuesday.

 

[KrisReef]

I need to replace my Hanna Alk meter and this is a good excuse as any to make a few purchases for the team.

And I don't mind supporting Brightwell with my purchases

Edit, I ordered a new Alk Meter from Hanna and the Brightwell Boost pH+ products and hope everything is here soon considering that Xmas shipping could slow things down. I have a couple of tanks to test, duplicate trials. I also bought Brightwell 8.3 for my own, thinking the pH is supposed to be in the "proper range."

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Jack did some experiments at Brightwell, and I suggest anyone testing this product try this experiment (possibly in addition to what I suggested) with both Brightwell pH Boost pH + and sodium hydroxide to the same pH values.

I have already indicated to Jack that I think the API alk kit would not detect the alk rise expected from his test even if it was just hydroxide.

From Jack:

We did a little test this morning to see what would happen in a test such as this.

1) We took 1 gallon of tank water from an established aquarium, the pH of the sample was tested with a freshly calibrated probe and was 8.03. The alkalinity was tested via API test kit and was 9.0

2) We added 1ml of Boost pH+ from a lot numbered bottle of shelf stock, stirred and retested 5 minutes after adding. The results were pH at 8.19 and alkalinity was 9.0

3) We added another 1ml of Boost pH+ from the same bottle, stirred and retested 5 minutes after adding. The results were pH at 8.31 and alkalinity was still 9.0

4) The pH settled out at 8.38 after another 10 minutes and the alkalinity was still 9.0. Total addition of Boost pH+ had been 2 ml.

 

[rtparty]

That they used API says enough for me

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

For folks wondering what sort of alk rise might be expected:

When I have added 1.4 dKH worth of hydroxide to new IO, the pH boost was 0.67 pH units. While extrapolation is not perfect, it suggests that the alk rise for a 0.1 pH unit boost in that water should be roughly 0.2 dKH. I don’t think the API kit, when used as directed, can detect that.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

That they used API says enough for me

Agreed.
I'm not an API - basher either; I think their tests definitely have their place in the hobby.

 

[KrisReef]

For folks wondering what sort of alk rise might be expected:

When I have added 1.4 dKH worth of hydroxide to new IO, the pH boost was 0.67 pH units. While extrapolation is not perfect, it suggests that the alk rise for a 0.1 pH unit boost in that water should be roughly 0.2 dKH. I don’t think the API kit, when used as directed, can detect that.

Perhaps the method justifies their claims, given the average, non-laboratory grade test kit is what the majority of the hobbists are dealing with?

Yo Ho!

 

[rtparty]

Agreed.
I'm not an API - basher either; I think their tests definitely have their place in the hobby.

My post comes off as bashing API but I should clarify...

API defintely has a place and I would venture most hobbyists would actually do just fine using them for alkalinity and calcium. Most of the time we are just looking for consistent and good enough IMO. But not for this specific test. You need something much more sensitive and accurate than API. I am not sure even the reputable hobby brands (like Salifert) would be enough for this and it certainly can NOT be a guesstimate with drops and colors and human eyes.

Brightwell using API shows laziness IMO

 

[MnFish1]

This is the proposed experiment:

1. take some reef tank water, that is in the pH range that needs raising, say, pH 7.8 to 8.2, and has alkalinity in the range you suggest (7.7 to 10 dKH)
2. some artificial seawater that is in the pH range that needs raising, say, 7.8 to 8.2, and has alkalinity in the range you suggest (7.7 to 10 dKH)
3. Measure alkalinity of both samples
4. add boost pH + until the pH rises 0.3 pH units
5. Remeasure alkalinity

Do the same test with sodium hydroxide to see if the proprietary base impacts the alk rise.

Do you think it might make sense to mandate the use of certain tests and also a time of when to measure alkalinity pre and post adding Boost pH?

 

[MnFish1]

Jack did some experiments at Brightwell, and I suggest anyone testing this product try this experiment (possibly in addition to what I suggested) with both Brightwell pH Boost pH + and sodium hydroxide to the same pH values.

I have already indicated to Jack that I think the API alk kit would not detect the alk rise expected from his test even if it was just hydroxide.

From Jack:

We did a little test this morning to see what would happen in a test such as this.

1) We took 1 gallon of tank water from an established aquarium, the pH of the sample was tested with a freshly calibrated probe and was 8.03. The alkalinity was tested via API test kit and was 9.0

2) We added 1ml of Boost pH+ from a lot numbered bottle of shelf stock, stirred and retested 5 minutes after adding. The results were pH at 8.19 and alkalinity was 9.0

3) We added another 1ml of Boost pH+ from the same bottle, stirred and retested 5 minutes after adding. The results were pH at 8.31 and alkalinity was still 9.0

4) The pH settled out at 8.38 after another 10 minutes and the alkalinity was still 9.0. Total addition of Boost pH+ had been 2 ml.

The API test kit is not sensitive to measure a change in alkalinity of the magnitude discussed - as far as I know? The graduations are 1 drop/dkH

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The API test kit is not sensitive to measure a change in alkalinity of the magnitude discussed - as far as I know? The graduations are 1 drop/dkH

Correct. It cannot even detect the full expected alk effect of hydroxide, for that pH boost, so certainly cannot detect if the effect is smaller than hydroxide gives.

 

[danimal1211]

I don’t know the exact ph boost but per Randy’s high ph recipe (sodium hydroxide) 2ml will raise 7.25 gallons from 8.2 to 8.6dkh. Tested over multiple days and checked via hanna.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

My post comes off as bashing API but I should clarify...

No, it really didn't! I'm sorry if my reply made it seem like it did. I was just clarifying MY position on the subject

 

[Miami Reef]

API. I am not sure even the reputable hobby brands (like Salifert) would be enough for this

What kit would you recommend for this experiment?

Would running this experiment longer term (a few days) be a better idea? We can aerate the solution and maintain pH with Brightwell boost pH+. Won’t it be easier to see the effects on alkalinity when maintaining a pH of 8.3?

 

[Miami Reef]

Also, what’s the purpose of using both fresh ASW and reef tank water? I think it’s a little excessive for this purpose, no? Especially if we will replicate the experiment with sodium hydroxide.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What kit would you recommend for this experiment?

Would running this experiment longer term (a few days) be a better idea? We can aerate the solution and maintain pH with Brightwell boost pH+. Won’t it be easier to see the effects on alkalinity when maintaining a pH of 8.3?

Aeration will drive the pH boost far lower, and if alk actually isn’t raised, will drive it to none.

 

[rtparty]

What kit would you recommend for this experiment?

Would running this experiment longer term (a few days) be a better idea? We can aerate the solution and maintain pH with Brightwell boost pH+. Won’t it be easier to see the effects on alkalinity when maintaining a pH of 8.3?

That is a better question for Randy, Rick, Dan, taricha, or someone else that is more knowlegeable than I.

I would assume a setup like Jim used in the linked thread would be needed to be more accurate and precise.

Alkalinity titration endpoint pH & Salifert endpoint color

TL;DR: The endpoint pH is 4.41, and the endpoint color is that "lavender" color I've been telling people about. Over the years, there have been many threads on R2R and other forums debating a couple of basic details relevant to testing for alkalinity in reef aquaria. One of the most...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Also, what’s the purpose of using both fresh ASW and reef tank water? I think it’s a little excessive for this purpose, no? Especially if we will replicate the experiment with sodium hydroxide.

Jack wants to use tank water and I’m ok with that. Seachem raised the idea that part of he hydroxide goes into “neutralizing” organic “wastes” in the water. Since organics will vary tank to tank, that raises the theoretical possibility of the effect differing based on the tank it came from.

I don’t think that effect is significant and I’m ok just doing tank water.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I’ll also defer to others using these kits more regularly. I would suggest taking three different alk readings before product addition, and three after.

My diy would be a good choice, using a commercial standard acid.

The exact endpoint (pH or color) doesn’t really matter that much as long as it is the same every time since it is an alk change we are assessing, not an absolute alk value.