Brightwell phosphate-E

[Tim Olson]

This is some good data. Are you still keeping with dosing/logging?

Yep, I'm still keeping track of water parameters and usually test every 1-2 days. Although, I'm not dosing Phosphate-E anymore. I quit dosing it last August, since it turned out it was killing my Chaeto in my refugium. I ended up chasing Phosphates with the Phosphate-E over about 3 months, reaching a whopping 0.1590 ppm. The dosing level became too high, though, and almost nuked my refugium. So, I had to switch back to GFO and the refugium fully recovered. I really don't like using GFO, since it's a lot more work and results in up and down swings. I'm hoping I find another solution to controlling Phosphates that maintains a more even level.

I hope this helps.

 

[spideybry]

Yep, I'm still keeping track of water parameters and usually test every 1-2 days. Although, I'm not dosing Phosphate-E anymore. I quit dosing it last August, since it turned out it was killing my Chaeto in my refugium. I ended up chasing Phosphates with the Phosphate-E over about 3 months, reaching a whopping 0.1590 ppm. The dosing level became too high, though, and almost nuked my refugium. So, I had to switch back to GFO and the refugium fully recovered. I really don't like using GFO, since it's a lot more work and results in up and down swings. I'm hoping I find another solution to controlling Phosphates that maintains a more even level.

I hope this helps.

It does, it's one of the reasons why I am looking for an alternative to GFO as well.

I also like the idea of something quantifiable - if my po4 is X, adding Y of what ever, will result in Z drop.

The idea for me was to use Phosphat-E longterm since I keep a few NPS corals and they like to be fed a lot, that coupled with a massive die off of Caulerpa Brachypus has left me with a bunch of excess nutrients in the water (mainly po4).

Right now dosing seems to work somewhat for me since I just started an ATS, but I feel like eventually the po4 being pulled out will affect my scrubber as well.

I appreciate the data and info though.

 

[Tim Olson]

It does, it's one of the reasons why I am looking for an alternative to GFO as well.

I also like the idea of something quantifiable - if my po4 is X, adding Y of what ever, will result in Z drop.

The idea for me was to use Phosphat-E longterm since I keep a few NPS corals and they like to be fed a lot, that coupled with a massive die off of Caulerpa Brachypus has left me with a bunch of excess nutrients in the water (mainly po4).

Right now dosing seems to work somewhat for me since I just started an ATS, but I feel like eventually the po4 being pulled out will affect my scrubber as well.

I appreciate the data and info though.

So, how many ml are you dosing? I feed too much but am afraid if I back off it will starve the corals, crabs and Mandarins.

Also, do you know what caused the die off of the Caularpa Brachypus? I have a bunch of it in my display tank that is generally kept in control with Pitho crabs.

Thanks

 

[Nate Chalk]

Lanthanum chloride killed my tang as well.
We need a sticky if there isnt on lanthanum chloride.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Lanthanum chloride killed my tang as well.
We need a sticky if there isnt on lanthanum chloride.

I'm curious about why some folks report this and others do not.

Did you use a filter sock to catch particulates?

How high was phosphate before dosing and what product did you use?

 

[GARRIGA]

Nothing quick likely good. Rather use PhosGuard which is faster than GFO and can be placed in a canister/reactor by itself yet applied in a small enough amount to regulate how much is filtered out. Quickly removed if phosphates fall too quickly.

 

[Nate Chalk]

I'm curious about why some folks report this and others do not.

Did you use a filter sock to catch particulates?

How high was phosphate before dosing and what product did you use?

See thats just it, i dont think people know how to dose it, into a filter sock. Its not documented enough.

Now sure you can say its on the person to not read. Im just seeing theres a place to educate and make it more readily available .

At least thats my viewpoint. I wonder does the product used here say to capture particulates. My personal case i chose a marketed pool product. Same chemical. So it didnt say capture the particulate.

 

[Dennis Cartier]

I just checked my bottle of TLF PhosBan-L and it gives appropriate guidance for dosing and catching the precipitates. I had a bottle of ATM Agent Green before and I seem to recall that it did not give the correct method of using it.

The issue is both manufacturers who may not give proper guidance on their products, as well as experienced reefer's who just dump it into their sumps/tanks and let it be known that is how they use it. In multiple threads, I have had the experience where I provide the info to dose it slow and catch and remove the precipitate only to have another post follow up my post with one saying 'Ya, I just dump it in the sump. Never had a problem ...'. An inexperienced tank owner sees that thinks, oh, I can just dump it in, without realizing there are serious problems that can occur for their livestock.

I dose LaCl 24x7 instead of using GFO. I would not be comfortable doing that, but I have 14 inches of glass beads, that filter down to 3 microns, between the LaCl and my tank. So I have safeguards in place to keep my tangs safe from harm.

A 5 micron sock and dosing super, super slow is the bare minimum in my view.

Dennis

 

[Nate Chalk]

I just checked my bottle of TLF PhosBan-L and it gives appropriate guidance for dosing and catching the precipitates. I had a bottle of ATM Agent Green before and I seem to recall that it did not give the correct method of using it.

The issue is both manufacturers who may not give proper guidance on their products, as well as experienced reefer's who just dump it into their sumps/tanks and let it be known that is how they use it. In multiple threads, I have had the experience where I provide the info to dose it slow and catch and remove the precipitate only to have another post follow up my post with one saying 'Ya, I just dump it in the sump. Never had a problem ...'. An inexperienced tank owner sees that thinks, oh, I can just dump it in, without realizing there are serious problems that can occur for their livestock.

I dose LaCl 24x7 instead of using GFO. I would not be comfortable doing that, but I have 14 inches of glass beads, that filter down to 3 microns, between the LaCl and my tank. So I have safeguards in place to keep my tangs safe from harm.

A 5 micron sock and dosing super, super slow is the bare minimum in my view.

Dennis

Totally with you Dennis

Just thought that if we had it as a sticky it may save someone. But I too know how it should be used now and can play the same cards.

 

[Lividfanatica]

I'm curious about why some folks report this and others do not.

Did you use a filter sock to catch particulates?

How high was phosphate before dosing and what product did you use?

I used Phosphate-E in an 88 gallon (a friend's tank I help with) for several months without any visual issues. The tank houses a yellow tang, a flame fin tomini, many other fish, snails, crabs, shrimp, as well as soft and LPS coral.

I put it on a dosing pump and dosed it into the sump upstream of the skimmer. He did NOT run filter socks in his tank, used Cheato for nutrient export, and solely relies on water changes for maintaining his other parameters (as a result Alk and Ca tend to be suppressed.)

I am very interested in finding some sort of common reasoning as to why tangs are affected in some cases and not others as I, like many people here, prefer LaCl over things like GFO due to ease of use and predictable results.

 

[schooncw]

Maybe I missed it somewhere but what’s the point of a 5 micron sock and not the standard 200 micron sock?

It principates at 7 microns, so a 5 micron sock is ideal.

 

[Fishy888]

I don’t have tangs admittedly but I successfully dosed phosphate-e. I was at 1 ppm phosphates when I started. I used a 5 micron sock, and only dosed enough to drop phosphate by 0.08 ppm per day. I diluted it as well and dosed it over a period of several hours. Slow and steady wins this race.

The one big mistake I made was thinking I needed to be at crazy low levels. I was at 0.02 ppm and 0.03 ppm phosphates and I wanted to dose more but instead of 0.08 I wanted to dose 0.008 ppm per day or even 0.0008 ppm in order to keep phosphates in a fairly narrow range below 0.05 ppm.

Thankfully @Lost in the Sauce knocked some sense into me. He saw me chasing numbers and made me aware, thankfully, that even SPS farms don’t keep phosphates that low. Thanks to him and several others I am keeping within the 0.07 to 0.10 range. Just be careful of how far you go and how fast your going.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It principates at 7 microns, so a 5 micron sock is ideal.

That’s an incredibly specific number. Where did it come from?

 

[Duffer]

I have 4 tangs in my tanks and have dosed phos e for over a year and not one single issue with the fish

 

[Coolcasino]

I have 4 tangs in my tanks and have dosed phos e for over a year and not one single issue with the fish

How are you dosing it?

 

[Duffer]

How are you dosing it?

I have been using this calculator and actually do smaller doses

http://larryl.emailplus.org.user.fm/fish/dosing-instructions-phosphate-removers.html

 

[bushdoc]

I used Brightwell Phosphate-E years ago carelessly and was lucky not to have fish mortality, although some coral demised due to sudden drop in phosphates.

Lanthanum Chloride seem to be used by some commercial coral growers, my LFS uses it too. If applied properly, you can actually control phosphates gradually, without side effects. I agree though that instructions do not specify how to do it properly (dripping slowly to filter sock or skimmer). I bet it would scare many customers off.

 

[Coolcasino]

I have been using this calculator and actually do smaller doses

http://larryl.emailplus.org.user.fm/fish/dosing-instructions-phosphate-removers.html

I use the same calculator. Are you dumping it into your skimmer or a sock?

 

[gwainrig]

I dose lanthanum chloride in a reactor at 2.7ml per min (2 capfuls to 5 gal rodi).filtered thru a 5 micron filter and than into a 1 micron filter in the sump..I have 5 tangs and zero issues.. 180 gal tank has been setup for 17 years and po4 is off the charts. Have used the reactor for 3 months and po4 is still high but have seen a noticeable difference in the tank's inhabitants..sand stays clean. no outbreaks of nuisance algae . slow and steady is the way to go..

 

[Coolcasino]

I used Brightwell Phosphate-E years ago carelessly and was lucky not to have fish mortality, although some coral demised due to sudden drop in phosphates.

Lanthanum Chloride seem to be used by some commercial coral growers, my LFS uses it too. If applied properly, you can actually control phosphates gradually, without side effects. I agree though that instructions do not specify how to do it properly (dripping slowly to filter sock or skimmer). I bet it would scare many customers off.

Yeah directions are pretty sketchy on how to use it. I usually use a syringe and just inject it slowly into my overflow that goes into a sock. I don't think I could just dump it in like I saw in one of the BRS videos.