Brightwell's Redoxiclean

[Kaboobie]

Does anyone have any experience with this product? It is recommended to be used prior to using Brightwell's Razor product. I picked some up and noticed it is a deep purple was looking into the available technical info and saw that it is listed as being a proprietary blend of manganese salts. The description of how the product behaves in the aquarium combined with its appearance reminds me of potassium permanganate. Which I have experience with using in the past treat marine leaches with varying levels of success. It behaves much like this product as described. Vibrant purple/maroon color that turns brown as it oxidizes organics. I guess the purpose of this is how safe do you think this product is if used according to the label's instructions. The dose is very small at only .75ml per 50 gallons (a real pain in the butt to measure for smaller volumes of water). In addition, I am curious as to the efficacy of the product in such small doses.

As to what I hope to accomplish...I am battling dinos I'm hoping this plus a round of Razor and Microbacter Clean along with promoting competitive organisms will knock out the bloom and get things back in balance. As part of the battle, I pulled the GFO out of my system; the phosphates bottomed out before I noticed lazy testing practices strike again and dinos bloomed quickly. I worked on dirtying up the tank a bit stopped water changes and all that. I have phosphates and nitrates and went a little bit overboard (there is a reason I was running GFO in the first place lol) got the phosphates back in line with phosphate E (didn't want to strip silicates and as I understand it this will only remove phosphate) and have begun reducing nitrate to where I want it currently at about 20ppm, which is ok but a touch higher than I'd like it to be. So I have some undesired algae at the moment, killed off one of the pencil brush macros that I like due to it getting covered in dinos, and a big chunk of my mermaid's fan bit the dust as well.

Thoughts, experiences, and knowledge are all very desired concerning the Redoxiclean as well as my planned course of action if you can speak to that. A full teardown of the tank or stripping sand etc... is not an option, if I have to go drastic like this my wife is absolutely going to lose her patience with me and this hobby lol. My first tank went sideways due to the most stubborn turf algae you've ever seen plus an explosion of dinos all due to terrible terrible decisions I made in the first year when the aquarium was just fish and rock.

Thanks.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Sounds like potassium permanganate. I would not use it. Very strong oxidizer with no evidence of benefit, IMO.

 

[brandon429]

how many gallons is your tank

if not many gallons I have a nearly unbeatable method with lots of proof pics for beating dinos.

if many gallons, you're on the experimental approach due to inaccessibility and I'd recommend using what they use in the dinos thread in the nuisance algae forum vs any new experimental doser.

how many gallons is your tank

 

[Kaboobie]

how many gallons is your tank

if not many gallons I have a nearly unbeatable method with lots of proof pics for beating dinos.

if many gallons, you're on the experimental approach due to inaccessibility and I'd recommend using what they use in the dinos thread in the nuisance algae forum vs any new experimental doser.

how many gallons is your tank

I know you promote the sand rinse and all that which I just can't commit to at this time. Thanks though.

 

[brandon429]

no it was peroxide, from the fifty page peroxide on dinos thread in the nuisance algae forum. always use methods that come with large work threads vs guess methods for sure

 

[Kaboobie]

no it was peroxide, from the fifty page peroxide on dinos thread in the nuisance algae forum. always use methods that come with large work threads vs guess methods for sure

Ah okay I'll read over that again to refresh my memory.

 

[Kaboobie]

@brandon429 isn't that just utilizing a less powerful oxidizer though?

 

[DrZoidburg]

If you mix it with a strong base it should turn green.

 

[Kaboobie]

If you mix it with a strong base it should turn green.

I'll try to test it later today or tomorrow. I might have something on hand that should do the trick not sure though.

 

[Kaboobie]

Sounds like potassium permanganate. I would not use it. Very strong oxidizer with no evidence of benefit, IMO.

What are your thoughts on the use of hydrogen peroxide to treat these sorts of issues? Brandon429 and others are regularly touting it's use and if hydrogen peroxide is useful due to its oxidizing properties then it would follow that the use of potassium permanganate would be effective in it's place obviously in much smaller quantities due to its strength.

 

[DrZoidburg]

I've had success with h202 and gha but never had turf algae issues. Have you tried any specific inverts? One downfall of permanganate is that your elevating metal levels in your tank.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What are your thoughts on the use of hydrogen peroxide to treat these sorts of issues? Brandon429 and others are regularly touting it's use and if hydrogen peroxide is useful due to its oxidizing properties then it would follow that the use of potassium permanganate would be effective in it's place obviously in much smaller quantities due to its strength.

Hydrogen peroxide is not just an oxidizer. It is also a reducer, reducing copper in seawater from Cu++ to Cu+.

I do not know what the mechanism is that dilute hydrogen peroxide helps with certain algae issues, but I would not assume it is not a trace element limitation. That might or might not be replicated by permanganate.

A candle and a welding torch are both flames, but most people would not use them interchangeably.

 

[DrZoidburg]

@Randy Holmes-Farley I think possible mechanism here. That the peroxide species penetrates the plant and under internal physiological ph make it oxidizer.

 

[taricha]

I picked some up and noticed it is a deep purple was looking into the available technical info and saw that it is listed as being a proprietary blend of manganese salts. The description of how the product behaves in the aquarium combined with its appearance reminds me of potassium permanganate. Which I have experience with using in the past treat marine leaches with varying levels of success. It behaves much like this product as described. Vibrant purple/maroon color that turns brown as it oxidizes organics.

If you do decide to go against the very competent advice given thus far and dose this anyway, please do take careful notes.
It is correct to note that there is little evidence supporting its use for helping against nuisance growth in a reef tank, but there's very little evidence supporting most of the things that people do on this board while trying to get rid of nuisance organisms.

google scholar search for permanganate aquaculture shows it's been quite widely used in that setting (for fish health), but a search of this board shows how little it's been used here.

Thoughts, experiences, and knowledge are all very desired concerning the Redoxiclean as well as my planned course of action if you can speak to that.

Speculation: several of the things that people try vs dinos are "cures" for a few (maybe a third of folks) and ineffective for the rest.

dilute H2O2 (1ml/10 gal)
elevating pH
elevating Temp (to ~83F)

From what I can tell, these would all have the effect of more rapidly oxidizing Fe (maybe other metals) and thus possibly making it less bioavailable to the nuisance. They may all be playing the same game, and it's possible that elevating ORP with permanganate (or ozone) plays the same game in a more direct and effective way?
(this is almost baseless speculation, but it's the best I've got.)

 

[Kaboobie]

If you do decide to go against the very competent advice given thus far and dose this anyway, please do take careful notes.
It is correct to note that there is little evidence supporting its use for helping against nuisance growth in a reef tank, but there's very little evidence supporting most of the things that people do on this board while trying to get rid of nuisance organisms.

google scholar search for permanganate aquaculture shows it's been quite widely used in that setting (for fish health), but a search of this board shows how little it's been used here.



Speculation: several of the things that people try vs dinos are "cures" for a few (maybe a third of folks) and ineffective for the rest.

dilute H2O2 (1ml/10 gal)
elevating pH
elevating Temp (to ~83F)

From what I can tell, these would all have the effect of more rapidly oxidizing Fe (maybe other metals) and thus possibly making it less bioavailable to the nuisance. They may all be playing the same game, and it's possible that elevating ORP with permanganate (or ozone) plays the same game in a more direct and effective way?
(this is almost baseless speculation, but it's the best I've got.)

I haven't made any decisions as to it's use. I'm still looking into it and definitely taking all the advice here from people I know to be highly knowledgeable. Chemistry is not my strongest field and I'm not a scientist, just a science teacher, so I value the input from those with actual expertise in the field.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

I want to know more about this candle and welding torch... whats a welding torch?

 

[ScubaSnacks]

I think the analogy here is the peroxide is the candle and potassium permanganate is the welding torch (oxygen acetylene torch, it cuts and brazes metal). Brandon has significant anecdotal evidence that peroxide will clean algae (and I've seen similar results after scrubbing and spraying the half of the rock in my tank that's accessible.) Brandon also has anecdotal evidence that high strength peroxide does the same, but perhaps better. Randy doesn't know the biochemical mechanism for which it works. Therefore, just because potassium permanganate is an oxidizer, similar to peroxide, it may not have the same impact as peroxide and your mileage may vary.

 

[Sean Clark]

I love how people will stand firmly against putting some unknown aquarium additive into their tank only to resort to untried and untested methods with random chemicals because they read somewhere on the inter-web that it is the second coming.
Good luck. I'll stick to my H2O2.

 

[ScubaSnacks]

I love how people will stand firmly against putting some unknown aquarium additive into their tank only to resort to untried and untested methods with random chemicals because they read somewhere on the inter-web that it is the second coming.
Good luck. I'll stick to my H2O2.

I agree with you, but in order to advance, we need a few guinea pigs. Maybe we find the next peroxide? Or it would be great if Brightwell would just partner with a few trusted folks to run some third party, unbiased experiments.

 

[Sean Clark]

I agree with you, but in order to advance, we need a few guinea pigs. Maybe we find the next peroxide? Or it would be great if Brightwell would just partner with a few trusted folks to run some third party, unbiased experiments.

I am all for advancing but I don't think people purchasing bottle x at the pet store should be the guinea pig. Most, if not all, making this purchase do not know they are testing the waters/blazing trails for everyone else.
I find that very unethical.