BRS Heater Questions

[Brew12]

@Brew12 using your method does your return “lock off” once 82 is hit or does it turn back on once it drops below 82 and then off again at 82?
See what im saying? Should i have my apex latch it to the off position?

I have it latch off until I manually reset it, either locally or online.

 

[infinite0180]

I have it latch off until I manually reset it, either locally or online.

Ya thats what im going to do. I will have to manually intervene in order to have it come back on. I already have my skimmer and ato power down once my return shuts off so i should be good to go. I cant believe nobody else has mentioned this. Ive literally been racking my brain about how to build some redundancy in my tank with my new brs heater without adding the external temp controller. Currently i have a jager set at about 81 on its internal thermostat so i haven't worried about my apex failing in the on position because that would back it up. With the new titanium brs heater i was about to just take the risk! Good thing i found this thread!

 

[Brew12]

Ya thats what im going to do. I will have to manually intervene in order to have it come back on. I already have my skimmer and ato power down once my return shuts off so i should be good to go. I cant believe nobody else has mentioned this. Ive literally been racking my brain about how to build some redundancy in my tank with my new brs heater without adding the external temp controller. Currently i have a jager set at about 81 on its internal thermostat so i haven't worried about my apex failing in the on position because that would back it up. With the new titanium brs heater i was about to just take the risk! Good thing i found this thread!

Glad I could help!

 

[spsick]

Great questions OP. Following in hopes of BRS following up.

 

[ksed]

Following along!

 

[Bulk Reef Supply]

I love that you guys have come out with a line of heaters but I have a few questions....

Is the ground wire from the cord connected to the titanium housing or to an internal component?

Is the titanium housing filled with a potting material or is it air? If it is filled, has the filling used been confirmed to be relatively reef safe at elevated temperatures?

Are there bare electrical wires/elements inside the titanium housing or is it electrically insulated?

Thanks for any info you can provide, I'm hoping to be comfortable to use these as a replacement this fall.



How about a tip for those who have an Apex/Profilux that want redundancy but find adding an external temp controller too much? My GHL is set to maintain temp at 78F and my tank can get as high as 79.5. I have it programmed to alarm and send an email at 80.5F and it shuts down the return pump at 82F. I figure my tank can run for days with the return pump off but it can cook in under 8 hours.
As an extra measure of reliability I run a second temp probe in my DT. It generates the same alarm and shutdown as the probe that controls my heaters. I also have an alarm that lets me know if temperature deviates by 0.5F to let me know I have either lost my return pump or I have a temp probe issue.

@Brew12 I'll get you the best answer I can to these questions. I've reached out to Schego to get some more info and will share what I find out. These are made to Schego's normal production standards, but have been adapted to our US 120v needs, so that would be the only major change. In testing, we've been running a handful of these heaters in our systems here for over a year, and have also done some failure testing, overheating the elements and abusing them pretty significantly, and encountered no issues outside of what I would expect (melted plastic parts and such). The elements in normal use have caused no issues in our tanks, and the element we trashed I wouldn't try to use, but we did way more to it than an element should be exposed to. One of the things I should be able to answer from Schego would be the potential toxins of any internals in a catastrophic failure situation (such as if the heater were left exposed to run dry).

 

[Brew12]

I'll get you the best answer I can to these questions. I've reached out to Schego to get some more info and will share what I find out. These are made to Schego's normal production standards, but have been adapted to our US 120v needs, so that would be the only major change.

Thank you, I appreciate you working to provide this information! I'm very pleased that there have been limited changes to the design, specifically to the heating element. I would be in the market for the 300watt heaters. If the only thing that has changed is adapting them to 120V I suspect that it means they have the normal 600 watt elements in them. By running them at 1/2 their design voltage it should greatly increase their life expectancy and reduce chances of premature failure.

One of the things I should be able to answer from Schego would be the potential toxins of any internals in a catastrophic failure situation (such as if the heater were left exposed to run dry).

This is obviously my biggest concern and to me could be the biggest selling point. Most heaters use material that will break down into toxins when they overheat. I do not know if Schego heaters would do this or not. For me, this would be the single best reason to switch to your heaters. If it can release toxins it is still no worse than the other heaters on the market.

One quick test you could likely do in house with an ohm meter (standard voltmeter/multi-meter) would be to take a resistance from the ground plug on the cord to the titanium housing. That would let me know if it is a part on the heater element that is grounded or the titanium housing. There are advantages and disadvantages to both methods of grounding but if the outer titanium housing isn't grounded then I would need to go back to using a ground probe in my system.

 

[clm65]

For those of us without an Apex to shut off the heater circuit or return pump during a runaway heater condition, what is the best way to make the system more failure proof? Can I get two of the controllers and plug one into the other so that they both would need to see a demand for heat to energize the heater? I realize that would increase the probability of a failure causing a loss of a heater, but I think that would be the lesser of two evils.

 

[TheHarold]

One quick test you could likely do in house with an ohm meter (standard voltmeter/multi-meter) would be to take a resistance from the ground plug on the cord to the titanium housing. That would let me know if it is a part on the heater element that is grounded or the titanium housing. There are advantages and disadvantages to both methods of grounding but if the outer titanium housing isn't grounded then I would need to go back to using a ground probe in my system.

Good points. I assumed that the titanium housing wasn't grounded, given the end looks fully potted and the wire inserted in the middle. My guess of the manufacturing process is that the heating element is suspended in the titanium and then potted. But that might be tricky without internal guides. I wonder if BRS would cut one open LOL

 

[TheHarold]

For those of us without an Apex to shut off the heater circuit or return pump during a runaway heater condition, what is the best way to make the system more failure proof? Can I get two of the controllers and plug one into the other so that they both would need to see a demand for heat to energize the heater? I realize that would increase the probability of a failure causing a loss of a heater, but I think that would be the lesser of two evils.

I guess in theory you could plug one into another. There is also a WIFI one with dual temperature probes by the same manufacturer, that will shut down and alarm if the probes read differently. Thats what I am currently using (Though I also have an apex). Seems slightly more redundant to me, but doesnt have the removable probes.

 

[Brew12]

For those of us without an Apex to shut off the heater circuit or return pump during a runaway heater condition, what is the best way to make the system more failure proof? Can I get two of the controllers and plug one into the other so that they both would need to see a demand for heat to energize the heater? I realize that would increase the probability of a failure causing a loss of a heater, but I think that would be the lesser of two evils.

That would likely be your best option. I haven't put a lot of thought into it since it doesn't apply to me, but if I do come up with something better I'll try to remember to post it here.

 

[clm65]

I guess in theory you could plug one into another. There is also a WIFI one with dual temperature probes by the same manufacturer, that will shut down and alarm if the probes read differently. Thats what I am currently using (Though I also have an apex). Seems slightly more redundant to me, but doesnt have the removable probes.

Thanks for the quick reply! I'm guessing BRS does not sell that one, unless I'm just missing it on their website. I did just see the Smart Temp Security controller on the website that essentially does the same thing I was asking about. My only concern about the dual-probe controller is at what point do they share the same internal components? It may still be possible for one failed component to result in a stuck-on heater. I like the idea of two completely different and independent devices for added protection.

 

[csund]

Thank you, I appreciate you working to provide this information! I'm very pleased that there have been limited changes to the design, specifically to the heating element. I would be in the market for the 300watt heaters. If the only thing that has changed is adapting them to 120V I suspect that it means they have the normal 600 watt elements in them. By running them at 1/2 their design voltage it should greatly increase their life expectancy and reduce chances of premature failure.


This is obviously my biggest concern and to me could be the biggest selling point. Most heaters use material that will break down into toxins when they overheat. I do not know if Schego heaters would do this or not. For me, this would be the single best reason to switch to your heaters. If it can release toxins it is still no worse than the other heaters on the market.

One quick test you could likely do in house with an ohm meter (standard voltmeter/multi-meter) would be to take a resistance from the ground plug on the cord to the titanium housing. That would let me know if it is a part on the heater element that is grounded or the titanium housing. There are advantages and disadvantages to both methods of grounding but if the outer titanium housing isn't grounded then I would need to go back to using a ground probe in my system.

They are closed from ground to case

 

[Brew12]

They are closed from ground to case

Thank you!

 

[clm65]

For those of us without an Apex to shut off the heater circuit or return pump during a runaway heater condition, what is the best way to make the system more failure proof? Can I get two of the controllers and plug one into the other so that they both would need to see a demand for heat to energize the heater? I realize that would increase the probability of a failure causing a loss of a heater, but I think that would be the lesser of two evils.

Doh! I just watched the BRS heater video. I guess I should have watched that before posting my question, as it certainly addressed my concerns. Sorry for the derail!

 

[Bulk Reef Supply]

Hey all,

Just wanted to follow up on @Brew12 original posted questions. Here are the answers I was able to get from Schego, copied below.

Q1-Is the ground wire from the cord connected to the titanium housing or an internal component?
A-The ground wire is attached to the titanium tube.

Q2-Is the titanium housin filled with a potting material, or air?
A-The titanium tube is filled.

Q3-If filled, has the filling used been confirmed to be aquarium safe at elevated temperatures?
A-We have been selling these heaters for almost 35 years....and noooooo, no toxic substances are released.

Q4-Are there bare electrical wires/elements inside the titanium housing or is it electrically insulated?
A-I don't understand the question. How should a heating wire work if it is insulated?

Hope those answers help!

 

[Brew12]

Hey all,

Just wanted to follow up on @Brew12 original posted questions. Here are the answers I was able to get from Schego, copied below.

Q1-Is the ground wire from the cord connected to the titanium housing or an internal component?
A-The ground wire is attached to the titanium tube.

Q2-Is the titanium housin filled with a potting material, or air?
A-The titanium tube is filled.

Q3-If filled, has the filling used been confirmed to be aquarium safe at elevated temperatures?
A-We have been selling these heaters for almost 35 years....and noooooo, no toxic substances are released.

Q4-Are there bare electrical wires/elements inside the titanium housing or is it electrically insulated?
A-I don't understand the question. How should a heating wire work if it is insulated?

Hope those answers help!

That does help, thank you for doing the research! Looks like I'm getting some new heaters for cyber monday! At least I'm hoping you have them back in stock by then!

I am absolutely thrilled you guys have brought these to market. Taking a top rated product, getting it modified for use in the US market, branding it as BRS so you guys handle all warranty claims, and at a price comparable for what the unmodified heaters sell for in Europe. I'm a fan!

Oh.. I understand their confusion on the electrical insulation... The filling serves the purpose I was inquiring about.

 

[Brew12]

Hey all,

Just wanted to follow up on @Brew12 original posted questions. Here are the answers I was able to get from Schego, copied below.

Q1-Is the ground wire from the cord connected to the titanium housing or an internal component?
A-The ground wire is attached to the titanium tube.

Q2-Is the titanium housin filled with a potting material, or air?
A-The titanium tube is filled.

Q3-If filled, has the filling used been confirmed to be aquarium safe at elevated temperatures?
A-We have been selling these heaters for almost 35 years....and noooooo, no toxic substances are released.

Q4-Are there bare electrical wires/elements inside the titanium housing or is it electrically insulated?
A-I don't understand the question. How should a heating wire work if it is insulated?

Hope those answers help!

Oh.. and next time you may not want to let @Ryanbrs write the manual for them.....

(I think the safety instructions for the internal heating element and the assembled heater unit kinda got mixed together)

 

[BeejReef]

Hit or miss, have to give them credit for trying to address a glaring issue in the hobby.
You could see the pain on their faces in the old video series trying to go through the mental gymnastics of recommending a heater when they clearly didn't believe in most (or any) of them.

 

[TheHarold]

Oh.. and next time you may not want to let @Ryanbrs write the manual for them.....

(I think the safety instructions for the internal heating element and the assembled heater unit kinda got mixed together)

omg LOL you should email them. A rather important typo