BTA New tank vs Matured tank

[Funston07]

I appreciate the responses without running to the stability issue. Currently only have frags in the tank so kinda figured it would be a better time to add the BTA before everything starts filling in even though most people were recommending against it. I understand life happens and most people cant always be there to tend to their tanks but I fortunately live pretty much in BFE of Southern Indiana with very little to do so im pretty much consistently around the tank, my gf told me I should marry it the other day cause im always staring at it looking around just checking things out. Also for anyone who has been in this conversation with me prior and I told them I would update this thread here it is.... been in the tank for 5 days now with no issues that I have noticed. He actually only moved over maybe 1" from where I originally placed him but its in a crevice so he is partially hiding. Cant complain though he is still pretty much dead center of the tank. His mouth has not been gaping and I also noticed he grabbed some mysis while I was feeding the fish. All in all he seems to be doing good so far.

 

[Funston07]

Here he is currently, I will get some pictures with more whites after being in tank and lights are at normal running power. I wanna make sure he is pretty settled so I dont stress him anymore than what I have to. I got lights turned down currently slowly bringing them up so he adjust to my lighting.

 

[bam123]

The second you get a glimpse of coralline, you are good to go. You can add sooner, but its a risk. I like to add BTAs before other corals so I can see where they go. I designed my aquascape to encourage them to go to the top and out of the way...

 

[Pinky80]

I've been at this a long time, so when parameters migrate in a new tank, I tend to correct them pretty quickly. So much so that I've started new tanks with newly mixed salt water at 1.025, temp at 78 and put the fish right in. I start with dry white sand or even epoxy coated aquarium gravel, with new filter setups, new equipment, and new plumbing. I do not use live rock, because I hate the pests they bring with them, like bristle worms and Aiptasias, and I once had a BTA come under attack from Strawberry Ball Anemones that came with the live rock. Plus, I like knowing what I put in the tank. I don't use Live Sand either, because of the crap that they contain that keeps nitrates off the charts. So after I get the water to temperature, I put in a couple fish and a nem. Everyone here should be screaming blasphemy at me right about now.

In fact, I just recently setup a tank that had a crash. Darn snails died and poisoned the tank. It's rough going from 25 trochus snails to 4 in less than a week, after having them over a year. An infection broke out from a new fighting conch snail that also died. Nitrates went off the charts and my Heteractics Magnifica started looking rough. Long story short, the tank was completely torn down, drained, then setup and ran with chlorinated tap water for two weeks, with new tap water changes every couple of days to keep up the chlorine bleach smell and flush all crap out of the pumps, filters, and pipes. All this while my nem and his accompanying mated pair of Perculas were in a hospital tank prophylactically treating for bacterial infections. My rocks, which used to be live rocks from many years ago, were also soaked in a wash-tub full of tap water for 2 weeks and then set out in the hot sun to dry (sun-bleach) for another week as well.

I then setup the tank like it was new. I put down a 1/2" layer of black gravel, because it's what I have and it had been bleaching dry in the sun for years. I put in my sun-bleached rocks, filled up with RODI water, set the salinity, turned on the pumps, set the temperature (which took a day) and put in the fish and my nem. The point here is, this was a new setup with NO TIME TO MATURE at all, like many people have commented. Tank went from empty to hosting my nem and fish within 36 hours.

The trick is adding MicroBacter 7 from Brightwell Aquatics. I swear by this stuff, absolutely top notch stuff. It is the bacteria needed to get a tank started. What's amazing is that, as the animals poop and pee in their brand new water you worked so hard to get clean and pure with a RODI system, the bacteria from MicroBacter 7 propagate your system just as quickly as the fish can pollute it. But, keep the bio-load reasonable. I have a 65 gallon with a 18" Nem, two Perculas and an Allen's Damsel, plus a 20 gallon sump. So, my bio-load is light. But still, it's a newly setup tank with newly re-conditioned equipment, cleaned with pretty much a carpet bombing tactic as far as we aquarists are concerned, and all is well.

BTA's are nice nems, and their prices have exploded in years. I had a Rose BTA that cost 30 bucks a long time ago. He grew to 12", split and then I had two 12" RBTA's in short time. I kept him for many years, 2 household moves and 3 new tanks. I used to seed my tanks with sand from an established tank. That's old school thinking. I've used what I suggested above for several years now and I can't argue the results. It just works. Just be sure you have good lighting for your nem. I'm sure you've read about lighting, right?

 

[Funston07]

The second you get a glimpse of coralline, you are good to go. You can add sooner, but its a risk. I like to add BTAs before other corals so I can see where they go. I designed my aquascape to encourage them to go to the top and out of the way...

Nice tank, is that a lepto on the bottom left side?

 

[bam123]

Nice tank, is that a lepto on the bottom left side?

I traded the orange lepto as it was on a rock I wanted to get rid of.

 

[laverda]

No, I know what "established" really means. I agree with kenny, live rock would make a big difference in the subject we've been discussing.

I would be interested in what established means to you. How did you measure and determine your tank is established enough for an anemone? You seem to think you know some secret formula that no one else knows about anemones. Please share it.
Anemones are thought to be the longest living animals in the world. There are a lot of things we still do not know about natural reefs and even the small reefs we all keep. There are hundreds of chemicals, bacteria and even viruses in a reef tank. Which of those are required to keep anemones I do not know. As far as I know no one does at this point. We do know that most new tanks are missing something they require. Especially those set up with dry rock! Bacteria in a bottle helps speed the cycle along but has not proven to be enough to enable keeping anemones in a new tank. There are threads posted to this site every day of dying anemones in new tanks. I have not seen anyone where someone posted they used dry rock and added one so early and it was healthy all along an lived for a year or more. This changes completely when using live rock.
Personally I hate to say it, but I would bet money your anemone will not make it 3 months. I hope I am wrong. Sadly the odds are not in your anemones favor. I don’t feel you should be risking potentially thousands of years life of your anemone because your to impatient!
I hope you keep posting photos of your success for the next year and beyond to prove me wrong!

 

[Pinky80]

The seasoned reefer statement is totally understandable. Even if everything does go good for me I wouldnt recommend it to just anyone either, I see plenty of people having issueswith their tanks when they start out. My thing is everyone brings up the bacteria thing with a mature tank but what is a nem benefiting from bacteria? All I can see that benefiting is more or less with stability in the system itself but if you can keep it stable before that beneficial bacteria is there I dont see why you cant get a nem to live healthy. Nice tank btw.

I agree, what does a stable tank really mean? Tanks do go through cycles as time progresses. If you keep your parameters stable, keep your nitrates and phosphates low (not zero), and keep up good tank husbandry, you'll see the tank actually changes itself over time. In fact, a long established tank that has not had a sulphur explosion, actually takes care of itself and you pretty much just watch your filters and skimmers, salinity and do minimal water changes. Some people even brag they don't do water changes at all, and it is possible. I think you're a long way from that though.

You asked what bacteria benefit is there between a new tank and a mature one. The answer is none. A new tank will have less per square inch of bacteria than a new one, but that just means they have room to grow. Don't go dumping 30 fish into a 50 gallon tank that is only a month old. Bio-loads are something to manage and keep reasonable. Time is a critical resource in this hobby. You do have to be patient. Technology and science has let us progress things faster though, but we still have to keep in mind the basics, like the nitrogen cycle and good lighting.

I suggest reading (I know, who reads a book these days right?) The Conscientious Marine Aquarist by Robert M. Fenner. He does have a couple negative opinions about Pomacanthus Navarchus and Heteractis Magnifica, but he does go in depth in many aspects of marine aquarium keeping that you just can't find on the internet or in forums. Both specimens mentioned I've kept with great enjoyment and my opinion contradicts his. But the foundational knowledge gained, as well as having a good resource to refer back to every now and then is worth having this book. I can't speak for new publishing about marine aquarium keeping other than the new books tend to go over what we need to know very lightly and are geared more into getting you to spend a lot of money. Older books that are peer reviewed tend to have more useful information and I think are more educational.

 

[Funston07]

I would be interested in what established means to you. How did you measure and determine your tank is established enough for an anemone? You seem to think you know some secret formula that no one else knows about anemones. Please share it.
Anemones are thought to be the longest living animals in the world. There are a lot of things we still do not know about natural reefs and even the small reefs we all keep. There are hundreds of chemicals, bacteria and even viruses in a reef tank. Which of those are required to keep anemones I do not know. As far as I know no one does at this point. We do know that most new tanks are missing something they require. Especially those set up with dry rock! Bacteria in a bottle helps speed the cycle along but has not proven to be enough to enable keeping anemones in a new tank. There are threads posted to this site every day of dying anemones in new tanks. I have not seen anyone where someone posted they used dry rock and added one so early and it was healthy all along an lived for a year or more. This changes completely when using live rock.
Personally I hate to say it, but I would bet money your anemone will not make it 3 months. I hope I am wrong. Sadly the odds are not in your anemones favor. I don’t feel you should be risking potentially thousands of years life of your anemone because your to impatient!
I hope you keep posting photos of your success for the next year and beyond to prove me wrong!

Not in a single post did I say my tank is established, it's still got plenty of time to be considered "established". Also where do you get the idea like I'm acting like I got some secret formula that nobody else knows? I literally am asking what causes the different outcomes in both category of tanks. Also if you would of read the conversation where someone said "honestly we just don't know" and we both agreed it's based on stability from most people's experiences then you wouldn't be asking these questions or acting like I'm sitting here saying I know more than everyone else. Plus there are literally people on this thread who have said they have added a BTA to a new tank with dry rock and had success with them. No need to come in here riding on your high horse. What a Debbie downer with the whole "I personally hate to say it" obviously not cause you did and you even wanna say you would bet money on the nem to die.

 

[Funston07]

I traded the orange lepto as it was on a rock I wanted to get rid of.

I was gonna say that thing looked huge

 

[longtimereefer]

Okay so I'm interested in eventually putting a couple BTAs in my tank but want to research more on this exact subject. Many people say you need your tank to be mature (6-8months) to start adding any nems. But why exactly? I'm not necessarily asking for just opinions or past bad experiences but what exactly causes a nems to not thrive in a new tank vs an old tank? Where is there actual research of this idea? They get their nutrients from lighting, periodically feeding, and nutrients from the water column so what does a mature tank have that a new tank doesn't that is going to be beneficial to its health? Outside of your regular parameters what else could be an issue causing people to be unsuccessful with nems in new tanks? I ask this because although people suggest having a mature tank I also see people post about adding a BTA to a 1 day, 1 month, 2 month, and 3 month old tanks with good success so what are they doing differently? It's obviously possible I'm just trying to research the cause of failure with nems in new tanks.

Part of the reason this is stated is knowledge, patience, experience. Most reefers fail within the first year, its not just getting the tank cycled, its the bio filter etc. If you started with dry rock, and have not gotten those rocks fully loaded with healthy biologics then your tank is not stabile, it is simply cycled, many people with dry rock will see a massive algae outbreak several months after they think the tank is good, more often than not it is in fact Dinos and not algae. You can have the lights etc and that's great, but a massive dino outbreak or other issues can greatly disturb a Nem to the point it will not sit still, will move all over the tank, killing other corals, getting sucked into powerheads etc (especially bubble tips) and ultimately many of them die. These creatures are capable of living for many years and deserve our best, if your rock isn't colored up nice with good algae, tank has only been around a couple months etc, then chances are good you'll have some surprises coming. Maybe you'll get lucky and all will be smooth sailing, but that's rarely how reefkeeping goes even with great husbandry etc unless you've been doing it a very long time. Ive been in the hobby around 26 years or so, failed tons, am not an expert by any means, just my two cents worth, but rushing anything in this hobby more than likely will fail, not always but often.

 

[Reef addict!!!!!]

@xxkenny90xx

Omg never seen one like this when it splits if u want to sell some I'd be very interested

 

[Funston07]

Omg never seen one like this when it splits if u want to sell some I'd be very interested

Hopefully it doesn't split for awhile but I'd be willing to part with its twin when it does happen. Only want one in this tank. My larger tank I plan on putting a few in but have different ideas as far as BTAs go for that one. You live in Victoria like as in Canada? Im not sure if my LFS ships there but they do ship and have a bunch of different colored BTAs that most places dont you could check out. They have a LSD rainbow BTA thats probably next on the nem list when I get my larger tank fully ready.

 

[j.falk]

Part of the reason this is stated is knowledge, patience, experience. Most reefers fail within the first year, its not just getting the tank cycled, its the bio filter etc. If you started with dry rock, and have not gotten those rocks fully loaded with healthy biologics then your tank is not stabile, it is simply cycled, many people with dry rock will see a massive algae outbreak several months after they think the tank is good, more often than not it is in fact Dinos and not algae. You can have the lights etc and that's great, but a massive dino outbreak or other issues can greatly disturb a Nem to the point it will not sit still, will move all over the tank, killing other corals, getting sucked into powerheads etc (especially bubble tips) and ultimately many of them die. These creatures are capable of living for many years and deserve our best, if your rock isn't colored up nice with good algae, tank has only been around a couple months etc, then chances are good you'll have some surprises coming. Maybe you'll get lucky and all will be smooth sailing, but that's rarely how reefkeeping goes even with great husbandry etc unless you've been doing it a very long time. Ive been in the hobby around 26 years or so, failed tons, am not an expert by any means, just my two cents worth, but rushing anything in this hobby more than likely will fail, not always but often.

I agree with all of that. Well said.

I made the mistake of doing exactly what the OP is trying to do. I few years back, I set up a brand new tank with dry rock, live sand, bacteria in a bottle and had 4 beautiful BTAs in the tank within a month...and I kept everything spotless. Dinos quickly came in and took over 2 months later. I eventually took the tank down and gave away all of my livestock because at the time I didn't know what dinos were or how to effectively deal with them. A very disheartening experience and a valuable lesson learned. Live rock that is fully established is one of the keys to a successful reef aquarium.

 

[Cell]

I think part of the difference in opinion/experience's with bta's is that not all bta's behave or react the same way to different environments. Some are much hardier than others. So you may have success with one strain in a new tank while another strain might struggle in the same environment.

 

[Funston07]

I think part of the difference in opinion/experience's with bta's is that not all bta's behave or react the same way to different environments. Some are much hardier than others. So you may have success with one strain in a new tank while another strain might struggle in the same environment.

I can easily see this having a huge impact on this entire subject. They are almost like a person, I've seen some people have 2 RBTA and they both behave differently in the same tank even. Once you add in different strains its kind of a who knows situation. All I can really say is the one I got seems to be doing good so far even though it's only been a week. Been making sure my parameters haven't varied significantly testing twice a week and dosing appropriately.

 

[Reef addict!!!!!]

Hopefully it doesn't split for awhile but I'd be willing to part with its twin when it does happen. Only want one in this tank. My larger tank I plan on putting a few in but have different ideas as far as BTAs go for that one. You live in Victoria like as in Canada? Im not sure if my LFS ships there but they do ship and have a bunch of different colored BTAs that most places dont you could check out. They have a LSD rainbow BTA thats probably next on the nem list when I get my larger tank fully ready.

I live in Australia Victoria, are u in Canada?

 

[Funston07]

I live in Australia Victoria, are u in Canada?

Oh okay that was my next guess, I'm in the US. It's crazy how we get stuff you guys don't get and then you guys can easily get stuff we can't. Wish we all had access to the same things. I thought it was crazy when I first heard you guys can't get certain medication that we can just go to about any pet store and buy on the shelf. One day I'll make it over there for vacation, there's some beautiful places there I would like to go see but that $2000 round trip plane ticket is holding me up lol.

 

[Reef addict!!!!!]

Oh okay that was my next guess, I'm in the US. It's crazy how we get stuff you guys don't get and then you guys can easily get stuff we can't. Wish we all had access to the same things. I thought it was crazy when I first heard you guys can't get certain medication that we can just go to about any pet store and buy on the shelf. One day I'll make it over there for vacation, there's some beautiful places there I would like to go see but that $2000 round trip plane ticket is holding me up lol.

Ouch that is expensive! I'm not much of a traveler myself but yeah it sucks how easy it is for us to get some stuff u can't and visa versa

 

[bam123]

Omg never seen one like this when it splits if u want to sell some I'd be very interested

Not that unusual. Go to AQUASD