• For a Limited Time the R2R Partner Membership is NOW OPEN! Get some cool swag and chances to win part of over $20,000 in prizes! Click here for more details

BTA New tank vs Matured tank

Funston07

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Jun 29, 2020
Messages
630
Reaction score
1,745
Location
Dubois
Okay so I'm interested in eventually putting a couple BTAs in my tank but want to research more on this exact subject. Many people say you need your tank to be mature (6-8months) to start adding any nems. But why exactly? I'm not necessarily asking for just opinions or past bad experiences but what exactly causes a nems to not thrive in a new tank vs an old tank? Where is there actual research of this idea? They get their nutrients from lighting, periodically feeding, and nutrients from the water column so what does a mature tank have that a new tank doesn't that is going to be beneficial to its health? Outside of your regular parameters what else could be an issue causing people to be unsuccessful with nems in new tanks? I ask this because although people suggest having a mature tank I also see people post about adding a BTA to a 1 day, 1 month, 2 month, and 3 month old tanks with good success so what are they doing differently? It's obviously possible I'm just trying to research the cause of failure with nems in new tanks.
 
Fragtacular Sale

Spare time

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 12, 2019
Messages
2,509
Reaction score
1,481
I think that people say "mature tanks" because often times new tanks by new reefers are extremely unstable the owner figures out the rhythm of their tank. If you have a tank that already has its first few fish, and you are seeing stability in your numbers as well as stability in terms of lighting (not changing the settings constantly), then the tank should be ready.
 
OP
Funston07

Funston07

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Jun 29, 2020
Messages
630
Reaction score
1,745
Location
Dubois
I think that people say "mature tanks" because often times new tanks by new reefers are extremely unstable the owner figures out the rhythm of their tank. If you have a tank that already has its first few fish, and you are seeing stability in your numbers as well as stability in terms of lighting (not changing the settings constantly), then the tank should be ready.
Well see that's exactly why I'm asking cause it seems more of just failed experiences with never solid info of why so then you get a lot of people saying to wait. Another reason I'm asking is cause I got a glitter bomb BTA as a freebi that will be here with some coral on Thursday but my tank is only 2 months old. That being said I'm really good with science experiments you could say, my parameters I have down pat. Have fish in there and everything seems to be going extremely smooth so I was curious of what the cause of failure is to be able to intervene and prevent it. Honestly this saltwater tank is way easier than what people always seemed to make it out to be which caused me to never start one before, finances were another issue lol. Idk I will update with the progress of it after it's been in the tank for a week or two though.
 

xxkenny90xx

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 2, 2019
Messages
2,007
Reaction score
2,224
Ok first of all what the heck is a glitter bomb bta....? Out of curiosity how did you start your tank (live rock, dry rock, bottles bacteria, ext)? I guess you will tell us whether a 2 month old tank will support a bta, be sure to keep us posted.

My opinion is that if you aren't 1000% sure that an animal will thrive in your care then you shouldn't bring it home.
 

MERKEY

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 5, 2019
Messages
2,733
Reaction score
5,775
I think telling someone their tank is too young is a nice way of saying they don't have the knowledge to keep a nem yet.

If you have done the research and prepared the tank then there is no reason a nem would not survive after a tank is cycled in a properly cared for reef tank.

Knowledge is power and diverse bacteria from I've rock is key.
 

xxkenny90xx

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 2, 2019
Messages
2,007
Reaction score
2,224
I think telling someone their tank is too young is a nice way of saying they don't have the knowledge to keep a nem yet.

If you have done the research and prepared the tank then there is no reason a nem would not survive after a tank is cycled in a properly cared for reef tank.

Knowledge is power and diverse bacteria from I've rock is key.
I agree, live rock, not dry makes all the difference on how quickly a tank will be stable
 
OP
Funston07

Funston07

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Jun 29, 2020
Messages
630
Reaction score
1,745
Location
Dubois
Ok first of all what the heck is a glitter bomb bta....? Out of curiosity how did you start your tank (live rock, dry rock, bottles bacteria, ext)? I guess you will tell us whether a 2 month old tank will support a bta, be sure to keep us posted.

My opinion is that if you aren't 1000% sure that an animal will thrive in your care then you shouldn't bring it home.
I started it with dry rock, live sand, and a bottle of bio-spira. Been adding pods for my diamond goby with phytoplankton. I'm extremely confident it will survive the only thing that had me questioning it was so many people saying the tank needs to be mature. But that comes down to my main point what does a mature tank have that a new tank doesn't that would benefit the nem? I've researched quite a bit on them and the biggest thing I see is having your parameters stable which mine are. I even have had my nitrates and phosphate stable the entire two months. So it was time to pop the question up on here. As far as your question about what a glitter bomb BTA is I'll post a picture of one, it's the most colorful BTA I have personally seen.
 

MERKEY

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 5, 2019
Messages
2,733
Reaction score
5,775
I started it with dry rock, live sand, and a bottle of bio-spira. Been adding pods for my diamond goby with phytoplankton. I'm extremely confident it will survive the only thing that had me questioning it was so many people saying the tank needs to be mature. But that comes down to my main point what does a mature tank have that a new tank doesn't that would benefit the nem? I've researched quite a bit on them and the biggest thing I see is having your parameters stable which mine are. I even have had my nitrates and phosphate stable the entire two months. So it was time to pop the question up on here. As far as your question about what a glitter bomb BTA is I'll post a picture of one, it's the most colorful BTA I have personally seen.
Good Bacteria needs to build in your tank for a multitude of creatures to survive.

We can hold something alive while it doesn't thrive.

I feel you will be successful in keeping the nem alive with proper light and nutrient balance in your tank.
 

Fishy65

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 28, 2020
Messages
1,337
Reaction score
5,271
Location
Columbus Indiana
I agree that its more about a stable environment than anything else. If you have stability, then it can work. One thing that I will add is I agree with the seasoned reefer sentiment, its one thing to have stable parameters for a short stretch, but knowing what to do without completely ruining your progress if something goes wrong comes with time. Does having 2 months of stability equal stable? What about 6? Or 12? I think its different for everyone. I had reef tanks long ago, for many years. The current system I have been building was started with live rock (very helpful) in March. Here is a pic of it now with 4 happy BTAs... one is nearly 7 inches across when expanded. I would never suggest this be done by a new reefer... just my 2 cents, not enough experience.
20200731_171937.jpg
20200731_171946.jpg
20200731_172007.jpg
 
OP
Funston07

Funston07

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Jun 29, 2020
Messages
630
Reaction score
1,745
Location
Dubois
I agree that its more about a stable environment than anything else. If you have stability, then it can work. One thing that I will add is I agree with the seasoned reefer sentiment, its one thing to have stable parameters for a short stretch, but knowing what to do without completely ruining your progress if something goes wrong comes with time. Does having 2 months of stability equal stable? What about 6? Or 12? I think its different for everyone. I had reef tanks long ago, for many years. The current system I have been building was started with live rock (very helpful) in March. Here is a pic of it now with 4 happy BTAs... one is nearly 7 inches across when expanded. I would never suggest this be done by a new reefer... just my 2 cents, not enough experience.
20200731_171937.jpg
20200731_171946.jpg
20200731_172007.jpg
The seasoned reefer statement is totally understandable. Even if everything does go good for me I wouldnt recommend it to just anyone either, I see plenty of people having issueswith their tanks when they start out. My thing is everyone brings up the bacteria thing with a mature tank but what is a nem benefiting from bacteria? All I can see that benefiting is more or less with stability in the system itself but if you can keep it stable before that beneficial bacteria is there I dont see why you cant get a nem to live healthy. Nice tank btw.
 

Fishy65

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 28, 2020
Messages
1,337
Reaction score
5,271
Location
Columbus Indiana
The seasoned reefer statement is totally understandable. Even if everything does go good for me I wouldnt recommend it to just anyone either, I see plenty of people having issueswith their tanks when they start out. My thing is everyone brings up the bacteria thing with a mature tank but what is a nem benefiting from bacteria? All I can see that benefiting is more or less with stability in the system itself but if you can keep it stable before that beneficial bacteria is there I dont see why you cant get a nem to live healthy. Nice tank btw.
Thank you.

I think the main idea behind the beneficial bacteria is in your tanks natural ability to handle additional bio load and break down toxic compounds (amonia, nitrates, nitrites). That is why I start with live rock, never dried... i also go against the grain and use rock from multiple sources (trusted reefers) and use lots of it. There is double the amount you see in the sump. My tank started with "mature" beneficial bacteria.
 
OP
Funston07

Funston07

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Jun 29, 2020
Messages
630
Reaction score
1,745
Location
Dubois
Thank you.

I think the main idea behind the beneficial bacteria is in your tanks natural ability to handle additional bio load and break down toxic compounds (amonia, nitrates, nitrites). That is why I start with live rock, never dried... i also go against the grain and use rock from multiple sources (trusted reefers) and use lots of it. There is double the amount you see in the sump. My tank started with "mature" beneficial bacteria.
This is what I figured was the main issue I just wanted to make sure I wasnt missing something somewhere that the nem actually needed to survive cause other than stability I cant find a single thing. Im confident I can pull it off though. I was on the fence with live rock because I like the look of it and the fact everything stabilizes itself quicker but I really wanna aim for a pest free aquarium the best I can which is why I went with dry rock. I honestly think thats gonna be a harder task than the BTA issue lol
 

sprungson

Anemone Lover
View Badges
Joined
May 20, 2019
Messages
515
Reaction score
437
i added my BTA and haddoni carpet at about 2 months using dry rock and dr tim's bacteria. they are both still alive today (14-15 mos later). I did do A LOT of research and reading through ReefCentral and here before I got them both. Stability is KEY.
 
OP
Funston07

Funston07

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Jun 29, 2020
Messages
630
Reaction score
1,745
Location
Dubois
i added my BTA and haddoni carpet at about 2 months using dry rock and dr tim's bacteria. they are both still alive today (14-15 mos later). I did do A LOT of research and reading through ReefCentral and here before I got them both. Stability is KEY.
Awesome hopefully mine will be there too then, I got faith in it. I've done plenty of research but just wanted to verify everything I've been researching is just based on stability and nothing else playing a role in it that I was missing. Your one of the type of success stories I mentioned earlier, it's possible just not practical for everyone.
 

sprungson

Anemone Lover
View Badges
Joined
May 20, 2019
Messages
515
Reaction score
437
Awesome hopefully mine will be there too then, I got faith in it. I've done plenty of research but just wanted to verify everything I've been researching is just based on stability and nothing else playing a role in it that I was missing. Your one of the type of success stories I mentioned earlier, it's possible just not practical for everyone.
I dont know if this mattered, but the bta i added at 2 months was tank raised. All (2) the wild anemone has died in my tank (and keep in mind I have mags, gigs, haddoni, and etc that are doing good). In retrospect, i speculate the wild BTAs had an infection. In the future if i ever get a wild BTA, i plan to treat it with cipro. This is just my speculation.
 
OP
Funston07

Funston07

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Jun 29, 2020
Messages
630
Reaction score
1,745
Location
Dubois
I dont know if this mattered, but the bta i added at 2 months was tank raised. All (2) the wild anemone has died in my tank (and keep in mind I have mags, gigs, haddoni, and etc that are doing good). In retrospect, i speculate the wild BTAs had an infection. In the future if i ever get a wild BTA, i plan to treat it with cipro. This is just my speculation.
The one im getting was tank raised as well
 

Katie M

Community Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 23, 2016
Messages
88
Reaction score
82
Just to chime in, I've always heard the same timeline too and I honestly believe it has to do with not just having bacteria in your tank, but multiple varieties of beneficial bacteria and other microfauna that we can't see. There are so many environmental factors that are invisible, but essential for our tank inhabitants to thrive. With my latest tank, I figured I would add a few bubble tips at around the 2 month mark (I've been reefing for years and work at a very reputable store) and they did not do well at all. Down the road at the 4/5 month mark, I started adding again because there was a deal I couldn't pass up (although I was still very hesitant to put one in at this point). Since then, my nems have been doing great!

The one shown in the picture is beautiful and I hope you have great luck with it if you decide to get it!
 
OP
Funston07

Funston07

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Jun 29, 2020
Messages
630
Reaction score
1,745
Location
Dubois
Just to chime in, I've always heard the same timeline too and I honestly believe it has to do with not just having bacteria in your tank, but multiple varieties of beneficial bacteria and other microfauna that we can't see. There are so many environmental factors that are invisible, but essential for our tank inhabitants to thrive. With my latest tank, I figured I would add a few bubble tips at around the 2 month mark (I've been reefing for years and work at a very reputable store) and they did not do well at all. Down the road at the 4/5 month mark, I started adding again because there was a deal I couldn't pass up (although I was still very hesitant to put one in at this point). Since then, my nems have been doing great!

The one shown in the picture is beautiful and I hope you have great luck with it if you decide to get it!
I appreciate any and all the input people have on this subject. I didnt really elaborate or know if you read through the entire post but yeah its not just bacteria but the entire variety of bacteria and micro fauna like you said. That entire statement though relates to the stability of the tank itself and how efficient it can handle nutrients/bioloads. The nem doesnt directly use anything from the different bacteria or microfauna to benefit itself right? Thats why I asked the question about the whole new tank vs old tank to see if there was something I was missing when researching. I cant find anything anywhere that relates to anything other than just the stability. Specifically the ph, salinity, temp, and lighting.
 

xxkenny90xx

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 2, 2019
Messages
2,007
Reaction score
2,224
I appreciate any and all the input people have on this subject. I didnt really elaborate or know if you read through the entire post but yeah its not just bacteria but the entire variety of bacteria and micro fauna like you said. That entire statement though relates to the stability of the tank itself and how efficient it can handle nutrients/bioloads. The nem doesnt directly use anything from the different bacteria or microfauna to benefit itself right? Thats why I asked the question about the whole new tank vs old tank to see if there was something I was missing when researching. I cant find anything anywhere that relates to anything other than just the stability. Specifically the ph, salinity, temp, and lighting.
I think what's going on here is that you know that it isn't recommended for a nem to be put in a newer system but you want the real data on why this won't work and the reality is that we don't really understand the science behind what exactly kills nems in unestablished tanks but we have all seen it happen over and over and over and over again.

That being said I know you have that nem on the way and I wish you luck. Keep us posted on its progress and post pics!
 

Do you have any "bully fish" in your tank?

  • YES (tell us in the thread)

    Votes: 148 58.3%
  • NO bullies just misunderstood...

    Votes: 86 33.9%
  • Other (please explain)

    Votes: 20 7.9%

Online statistics

Members online
2,317
Guests online
5,179
Total visitors
7,496
TSM Aquatics
Top