Bulkhead size on 150gallon tank

[gfish]

Can someone clear something up for me. I have a Pro clear 200 tank. I want to convert the overflow to a herbie setup. I want to convert it to a standard/imperial size but the way it was plumbed was really weird so I decided I was just going to replace the bulkheads. Easy enough not a big issue but what I noticed is the bulkheads are all 32mm size so I have 3/4" bulkheads to fit in the holes but that seems like it will be too small from some research. There are 3 holes total and all 3 are going to require 3/4" bulkheads and that's a tight fit.

The question is are these bulkhead sizes going to be enough flow? Tank is 60" x 24" x 26" approx 150 gallon. The sump I have is trigger 39 platinum and return pump is RO Varios-8.

 

[Saltyreef]

3/4 drain bulkheads?!
Maybe for the return its ok.....

Ive never seen anything less than 1" for drains.

I would consider redrilling larger holes and using 1 or 1.5" for the 2 drains.

Does the return pump accept 3/4" pipe?

 

[gfish]

The 3/4" is for the PVC fittings. The actual hole diameter is about 1.5" wide so a 3/4" bulkhead will just barely fit in the hole. That is the way the tank came.

 

[gfish]

I'm not sure why 3/4" holes for the drain is all they made but that's all it has.. 3 of them.. 2 for drain and 1 for return.

I would have to take the overflow box out to be able to drill the holes larger.. I'm really not sure which way i want to go.. Should i just try with the holes I have and see if it works ok or should i take the tank off the stand work on removing the overflow box so i can drill larger holes.. This really frustrates me to spend this kind of money on a brand new tank and have to perform this kind of work just to make it work right..

 

[gfish]

I have an idea that I'm hoping someone could tell me if this would be ok or not..

So in my overflow box I have 3 holes with 3/4" bulkheads.. 2 drain and 1 return..

My thoughts are if I don't have enough flow for the 150gallon DT and 40 gallon sump that I could use all 3 holes for the drain and run an external return line on the back of the tank up and over the tank. It's not as clean as I would have wanted but I'd rather do that then try to remove the overflow box to make the holes bigger and put it all back together..

I would have 2 drains full siphon with gate valves and the 3rd as an emergency drain just like a normal Herbie style but with 2 full siphon drains instead of 1. I would have to assume that i'd never have both of my full siphon drains clog at the same time. My trigger 39 sump has and extra bulkhead connection for 3 total so I have the plumbing for the sump to have 3 lines coming in..

The return would run up the back of the tank and over the top and back into the overflow box and into a T and out locline like it was designed for in the first place.. I have a check valve on the return line.

Would this work ok or am I missing anything that would give me issues?

 

[Saltyreef]

Sounds good but...

Why not run it bean animal style with 3 drains?

And

If ur drilling the holes bigger already, why not drill another hole at the top of the tank hidden behind the overflow for a 3/4" return bulkhead too?

 

[JoshH]

I think we need to cycle back to the beginning here, what bulkheads did the tank originally come with? I'm guessing 25mm custom bulkheads which is why everything looks weird (Looking at Pro-Clears website). 25mm is JUST shy of an Inch and according to Pro-Clear the drain is already a Herbie style, you just need to add a valve on one of the drain lines.

So I see no need to change out the plumbing in the overflow itself. You can easily swap out the rest of the plumbing with a metric/imperial adapter and go from there...

 

[gfish]

So tank originally came with bulkheads 3 total.. 2 for the drain and 1 for return.. They used some kind of dual drain system with these silencers that look like a spiral slide in the drain pipe with a cap and hole at the top of each pipe.. No emergency drain these 2 drains are both same height in the overflow and the plumbing had ball valves for both the drain pipes where it goes into the sump. 3rd bulkhead was for the return. I didn't like that plumbing setup with no emergency and I have a trigger 39 sump that I want to use so I need to customize the plumbing for it.

The plumbing they sent with the tank was a pipe that used the bulkhead nut threading.. which is completely non standard.. so there is no way to convert it to either metric or imperial.. believe me I tried my best to make it work... The inside of the bulkhead I thought would be "slip" fitting that might have been metric but I have no way to get metric pvc pipe and the pipe that came with the tank would NOT slip into the bulkhead. I honestly have no idea what or why they used this type of bulkhead plumbing setup that is completely proprietary.. so....

I've already removed the bulkheads that came with the tank and i've got 3/4" bulkheads that are a "tight" fit but will work i'm cleaning those holes now to install the new bulkheads so I'm past the point of trying to convert the existing plumbing and moved on to installing these standard 3/4" double threaded bulkheads.

The tank is 60" x 24" x 26" and if I did a standard Herbie style drain is this going to be enough flow for this size tank? That's the problem that I'm running into now or I guess the question I have... I really don't want to attempt to drill bigger holes over existing holes because there's not a lot of room in the overflow not to mention I'd have to figure out how to even drill the hole with existing overflow box attached.

So my alternative was to use all 3 holes for the drain system and external return like I mentioned above.

 

[JoshH]

So tank originally came with bulkheads 3 total.. 2 for the drain and 1 for return.. They used some kind of dual drain system with these silencers that look like a spiral slide in the drain pipe with a cap and hole at the top of each pipe.. No emergency drain these 2 drains are both same height in the overflow and the plumbing had ball valves for both the drain pipes where it goes into the sump. 3rd bulkhead was for the return. I didn't like that plumbing setup with no emergency and I have a trigger 39 sump that I want to use so I need to customize the plumbing for it.

The plumbing they sent with the tank was a pipe that used the bulkhead nut threading.. which is completely non standard.. so there is no way to convert it to either metric or imperial.. believe me I tried my best to make it work... The inside of the bulkhead I thought would be "slip" fitting that might have been metric but I have no way to get metric pvc pipe and the pipe that came with the tank would NOT slip into the bulkhead. I honestly have no idea what or why they used this type of bulkhead plumbing setup that is completely proprietary.. so....

I've already removed the bulkheads that came with the tank and i've got 3/4" bulkheads that are a "tight" fit but will work i'm cleaning those holes now to install the new bulkheads so I'm past the point of trying to convert the existing plumbing and moved on to installing these standard 3/4" double threaded bulkheads.

The tank is 60" x 24" x 26" and if I did a standard Herbie style drain is this going to be enough flow for this size tank? That's the problem that I'm running into now or I guess the question I have... I really don't want to attempt to drill bigger holes over existing holes because there's not a lot of room in the overflow not to mention I'd have to figure out how to even drill the hole with existing overflow box attached.

So my alternative was to use all 3 holes for the drain system and external return like I mentioned above.

Well that really sucks, I have no idea why these companies come up with these convoluted setups. It can't save them any money.

So, you could have ordered metric plumbing, it is available in the US. However either way as you mentioned it might not work out.

I'll answer your question with another question, what kind of sump turnover were you hoping to achieve?? Flow wise I think that you're probably in the 600ish GPH range with a 3/4" line which works out to about 4 times turnover. Which is right in the middle of the now recommend 3-5 times turnover per hour range.

 

[gfish]

Well that really sucks, I have no idea why these companies come up with these convoluted setups. It can't save them any money.

So, you could have ordered metric plumbing, it is available in the US. However either way as you mentioned it might not work out.

I'll answer your question with another question, what kind of sump turnover were you hoping to achieve?? Flow wise I think that you're probably in the 600ish GPH range with a 3/4" line which works out to about 4 times turnover. Which is right in the middle of the now recommend 3-5 times turnover per hour range.

I guess that's the question I'm trying to answer is whether or not I will have enough flow for turn over using a single 3/4" herbie drain system. If I'm at 600ish GPH i'm looking at tank + sump around 190g then yeah around 3 to 3.5 times the turn over which makes me think minimum rate. Would you be happy with that much turn over as the most you can get?
I probably didn't need this RO Varios-8 pump I probably could have easily gone with the Varios-6 if I stick with the single 3/4" drain.

Anyhow.. This is why i'm debating running an external return. If I did that and use 2 drains it would get me roughly 1200Gph ability to go 6 time turn over..

 

[JoshH]

Would you be happy with that much turn over as the most you can get?

Myself, it's definately lower than I'd like, however that's just me and how I like my sump set up. I usually need a higher tank turnover because my refugium is run separately off the same main drain line. So let's say I want 500 GPH going through my fuge and 500 GPH running though my skimmer section, I need 1000 GPH in order to make this happen. Most sump setups aren't run like this though so 500 would be just fine in that case.

I probably didn't need this RO Varios-8 pump I probably could have easily gone with the Varios-6 if I stick with the single 3/4" drain.

While I perfer to run a separate pump on a manifold. No reason why you couldn't take advantage of the over powered pump and set a manifold up on your return line..

Anyhow.. This is why i'm debating running an external return. If I did that and use 2 drains it would get me roughly 1200Gph ability to go 6 time turn over..

Even at that, as mentioned above if one drain line fails. You've only got one extra 3/4" line to handle the flow. This is okay as long as the other line doesn't clog or even partially clog. That's where you would run into issues, because your 3/4" secondary/emergency line won't be able to handle the flow the other two were taking.

The odds of that happening are pretty slim however, just something to take into consideration.

 

[gfish]

Myself, it's definately lower than I'd like, however that's just me and how I like my sump set up. I usually need a higher tank turnover because my refugium is run separately off the same main drain line. So let's say I want 500 GPH going through my fuge and 500 GPH running though my skimmer section, I need 1000 GPH in order to make this happen. Most sump setups aren't run like this though so 500 would be just fine in that case.



While I perfer to run a separate pump on a manifold. No reason why you couldn't take advantage of the over powered pump and set a manifold up on your return line..



Even at that, as mentioned above if one drain line fails. You've only got one extra 3/4" line to handle the flow. This is okay as long as the other line doesn't clog or even partially clog. That's where you would run into issues, because your 3/4" secondary/emergency line won't be able to handle the flow the other two were taking.

The odds of that happening are pretty slim however, just something to take into consideration.

Thanks for the input you gave.. I'm not experienced in salt water so I'm really trying hard to get my "equipment" setup correctly now before I put water in it. I'll give it some time to think it over how I want to go. but I'm definitely leaning to just making an external return just so I have more flexibility in the future if I do need more flow.

 

[JoshH]

Thanks for the input you gave.. I'm not experienced in salt water so I'm really trying hard to get my "equipment" setup correctly now before I put water in it. I'll give it some time to think it over how I want to go. but I'm definitely leaning to just making an external return just so I have more flexibility in the future if I do need more flow.

Nothing wrong with that. It's one of those situations where there really is no right or wrong answer and none of them are easy options.

I'd still look into even drilling the holes out ever so slightly more. It would be a pain but doable, even if you could do JUST one. You'd be in a MUCH easier position.

I'd keep digging around and get a feel for what you want to run filtration wise and see if the slightly lower flow could still be enough, that might give you the answer you need.

 

[JoshH]

Going back to the old plumbing, is it in still good shape???

Any pictures?? Specifically of the "Bulkhead"portion

I might have thought of something that would work

 

[gfish]

Nothing wrong with that. It's one of those situations where there really is no right or wrong answer and none of them are easy options.

I'd still look into even drilling the holes out ever so slightly more. It would be a pain but doable, even if you could do JUST one. You'd be in a MUCH easier position.

I'd keep digging around and get a feel for what you want to run filtration wise and see if the slightly lower flow could still be enough, that might give you the answer you need.

I'm honestly not sure how I would drill the holes.. I don't think it would be doable underneath the tank pushing up on the bottom of the tank... I can't go in from the top there is not room for even a drill to get into the overflow box it's very small.. Then the holes in the overflow box are pretty close together so i'd worry about the integrity of the glass.. It just seems like the safer option would be to just run an external return line. If I had more experience in drilling glass I might consider it but it's not something I have and this tank is HEAVY it took 4 of us to get it up on the stand to begin with. I took a picture of the drilled holes for bulkheads inside the overflow so you can see just how close the holes already are..

 

[gfish]

Going back to the old plumbing, is it in still good shape???

Any pictures?? Specifically of the "Bulkhead"portion

I might have thought of something that would work

No the old bulkheads are not reusable. They didn't use a traditional gasket like most bulkheads.. I think they just used nothing but thick black caulking type compound for everything. and i mean a LOT of it.. It's been quite a job to try and clean these holes to install the new 3/4" bulkheads... The holes even has this black caulking material inside the walls of the hole so you can see where the thread outline from the old bulkheads are.. I was initially going to clean that out but then decided that might work pretty well for the new bulkheads and I can kind of "screw" the new bulkhead into the hole as it's a very tight fit to get these 3/4" bulkheads in.

 

[JoshH]

No the old bulkheads are not reusable. They didn't use a traditional gasket like most bulkheads.. I think they just used nothing but thick black caulking type compound for everything. and i mean a LOT of it.. It's been quite a job to try and clean these holes to install the new 3/4" bulkheads... The holes even has this black caulking material inside the walls of the hole so you can see where the thread outline from the old bulkheads are.. I was initially going to clean that out but then decided that might work pretty well for the new bulkheads and I can kind of "screw" the new bulkhead into the hole as it's a very tight fit to get these 3/4" bulkheads in.

Wow the construction of that overflow plumbing is a bit ridiculous. That left over silicone (If it is inside the overflow) is most likely going to cause you some real issues getting a good seal on those bulkheads.

I agree those are too close together to drill all three, and the glass is most likely tempered anyway.

 

[gfish]

Wow the construction of that overflow plumbing is a bit ridiculous. That left over silicone (If it is inside the overflow) is most likely going to cause you some real issues getting a good seal on those bulkheads.

I agree those are too close together to drill all three, and the glass is most likely tempered anyway.

I"ve scraped it as best I can using a razor blade and some goo gone.. spray some more goo gone and let it sit awhile.. scrape some more.. rinse repeat many times over now.. I've got it about as clean as I can get it.. I'm going to use the thicker gaskets that come with sched 80 bulkheads on my sched 40 3/4" bulkhead and probably use a little silicone underneath that gasket as well.. then use the other gasket on the nut side as well with a little silicone and hope that works.. If that doesn't' seal it up leak proof then nothing will and i'll be wondering what I do with a $2000+ tank that I can't use because of the insane plumbing they did to it. LOL I'm optimistic that it will seal..

 

[JoshH]

I"ve scraped it as best I can using a razor blade and some goo gone.. spray some more goo gone and let it sit awhile.. scrape some more.. rinse repeat many times over now.. I've got it about as clean as I can get it.. I'm going to use the thicker gaskets that come with sched 80 bulkheads on my sched 40 3/4" bulkhead and probably use a little silicone underneath that gasket as well.. then use the other gasket on the nut side as well with a little silicone and hope that works.. If that doesn't' seal it up leak proof then nothing will and i'll be wondering what I do with a $2000+ tank that I can't use because of the insane plumbing they did to it. LOL I'm optimistic that it will seal..

Acetone is your friend here. It will soften the silicone enough to wipe off I would put some on a rag and reach in from the bottom and just do circles around where all the leftovers are. It should all come off

 

[gfish]

Acetone is your friend here. It will soften the silicone enough to wipe off I would put some on a rag and reach in from the bottom and just do circles around where all the leftovers are. It should all come off

Thank you I'm going to try that. I don't want to have a failure here because I have no other options.