Rick Strauss
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I figured it out. Thanks anyway.
Calcium reactor control by Neptune Trident
- Thread starter trido
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Shirak
Valuable Member
Giving this a whirl. My tank is pretty low demand currently so I have my CaRx to run around pH 7 when the carbon doser is running long term. That gives me a 14 dkh on the effluent at 27ml min into my 75g system. Trident is set to test every 4 hours (6/day). I set 'wide open' at 8.45 dkh. I have noticed if my alk is right around 8.44-.45 in the early evening that it will spike up since the carbon doser is running steady for the next 4 hours when lights go out and demand drops to almost 0. I have made a second set of virtual outlets to throttle the doser to cause a slower rise in alkalinity in this scenario.
So to sum up.. first pair will kick in if over my 8.45 and throttle the reactor to cause a slow drop in tank alk. The second pair will kick in if my alkalinity is between 8.43-8.45 and cause a slow rise in alkalinity. Under 8.43 the doser will run steady. See how this works...
So to sum up.. first pair will kick in if over my 8.45 and throttle the reactor to cause a slow drop in tank alk. The second pair will kick in if my alkalinity is between 8.43-8.45 and cause a slow rise in alkalinity. Under 8.43 the doser will run steady. See how this works...
Last edited:
OP
OP
Go to your graphs page and scroll down until you get to the Trident outputs. Alk,Calcium and Mg. this has the coding names for each of the parameters
Since the beginning of April 2019 I've had my Trident and after a couple weeks when I trusted it, I started experimenting with some programming I thought of well before its release. More people with reactors need to know about this easy to create and use program to help with Alkalinity stability so I'm sharing it on R2R in hopes more reefers see it. A sticky thread would be best.
For 15 years prior to the Neptune Trident, my Alkalinity was always on a slow climb, or slow drop due to my laziness. I learned that as long as changes happened slowly my corals don't really care. Because of that, I never worried about dialing my reactor in perfectly and I would often go several months without testing for Alkalinity. I've had Alkalinity as low as 6 and as high as 16. Those two extremes are when my corals showed visible signs of stress and of course I had to jump to action to correct the problem. A 10% WC and slight correction of the reactor is all that was ever needed. The problem happened slowly so correcting it slowly is always best with SPS. Every number in between is pretty safe in my experience. Of course 7-11 is the target. I have not tested for Calcium in over a decade, and rarely test for Magnesium. In my opinion, with a Calcium reactor, those two numbers are not real important, because with a quality media, they will always be balanced.
Enough back story, on to the good stuff.
This program should work with any CO2 regulator with an electronic selenoid. Its very simple and consists of two virtual outlets. One is the high limit of your choice, and the second is the toggle that slows the melt (raises the pH in the reactor) to slowly lower the Alkalinity in the tank.
This is the high limit Virtual Outlet. I chose 9.03 as a random number for the initial experiment and never changed it. The Target Alkalinity is 9.00.
This is my OSC Virtual Outlet. For every twenty minute cycle, the CO2 is turned off which raises the reactor pH up about two tenths
For the reactor CO2, I left my old original programming as a fail safe and simply added the last line. At this point I could remove the second line, but leaving it will make things easier for when I have to take the Trident off line for maintenance.
Thats it! The program requires you to dial in the reactor to work slightly harder than you need it to and as demands increase the toggle will come on less often as a high limit. This has been successfully working for quite a few large SPS tanks including @melev and @Thales as well as my own. I hope it helps you too.
I just set up your programming to control my calc reactor with my Trident. my target alk is 9.0 but its currently 9.67. I see the CO2 still turns on even if my high alk limit is set to 9.3. Since programming it this morning, my alk has gone up .13 dkh. Should i just leave the Co2 and the 2 virtual outlets off until my alk drops below 9.0 or is the 9.3 limit supposed to kick in and turn the Co2 off? If its supposed to keep it off, then i probably fubar'd the code somewhere.
here's my code:
calc_CO2_OFF
Set ON
If Alkx2 > 9.30 Then OFF
CRX_Throttle
OSC 015:00/005:00/000:00 Then ON
If Output calc_CO2_OFF = ON Then OFF
C02_G3
Fallback ON
If pH2 > 7.00 Then ON
If pH2 < 6.95 Then OFF
If Output CRX_Throttle = ON Then OFF
CDavmd
AstroReefer
The way it supposed to work-
When your Alk is above your target it will go into the oscillate mode where the CO2 is on for 5 minutes then off for 15 thereby providing a lower nominal level of Alkalinity. If it falls below the target then the Max setting kicks in, keeping it the CO2 on continuously until the next test and drop below the target.
What you need to work out is your nominal levels which its in the throttle mode. This part is like running a CaRX with out Apex...you need to spend a few days adjusting you bubble count and reactor pH for you tanks needs. Once this is set then the Apex control will work well. It will take a few days to reach a fairly steady state.
Here is my graph, my tank is under low demand currently and I'm bubbling 4 bubble per minute with a flow from my Kamoer pump at 28 cc. I have my target Alk to 8.2. As you can see mine fluctuates about .4-.5 dKH. I'm only testing 4x per day but if I wanted tighter control I could test more often.
Hope this helps.
Shirak
Valuable Member
The pH2 > 7 is probably overriding the throttle code since the pH will go up in the reactor to probably greater than 7 when it's in the throttle mode.
If that is not the case then you can do like I did and adjust the throttle timing and increase the time it is off until you find the throttle mode causes the alk to slowly decrease.
I have my throttle set to
If Alkx9 > 9.10 Then OFF
I also put a line in mine to shut the co2 if it goes over a certain limit as a fail safe.
reactor code
Fallback ON
Set ON
If Output CaRxThrHIGH = ON Then OFF
If Output CaRxThrotLOW = ON Then OFF
If Time 11:00 to 15:30 Then ON
If pHCaRx < 6.44 Then OFF
If Alkx9 > 9.15 Then OFF
My system is pretty low demand so I have a second throttle that runs the reactor with a little lower pH but not quite fully open. I also tossed in a few hours when lights are going when it's just on.. my reactor is set that even running full open it barely keeps up with demand... unless it's over 9.15 alk in which case it won't go on or into the throttle mode
ahh got it. thanks for the explanation.The way it supposed to work-
When your Alk is above your target it will go into the oscillate mode where the CO2 is on for 5 minutes then off for 15 thereby providing a lower nominal level of Alkalinity. If it falls below the target then the Max setting kicks in, keeping it the CO2 on continuously until the next test and drop below the target.
What you need to work out is your nominal levels which its in the throttle mode. This part is like running a CaRX with out Apex...you need to spend a few days adjusting you bubble count and reactor pH for you tanks needs. Once this is set then the Apex control will work well. It will take a few days to reach a fairly steady state.
Here is my graph, my tank is under low demand currently and I'm bubbling 4 bubble per minute with a flow from my Kamoer pump at 28 cc. I have my target Alk to 8.2. As you can see mine fluctuates about .4-.5 dKH. I'm only testing 4x per day but if I wanted tighter control I could test more often.
Hope this helps.
Shirak
Valuable Member
To deal with the typical long term drop in alk over time as demand increases, without having to fiddle directly with the reactor flow and CO2, this program will automatically handle it by having the CaRx run longer and longer between cycles where it is throttled back. At some point the reactor will pretty much be running constantly and at that point you can bump up CO2 and if needed effluent rate to again have it start throttling back periodically during the day.
So not only do you not have to mess with the reactor as much, but your alk will stay within a certain range indeffinitely and not drift away from your target as tank demands change.
spscrackhead
Active Member
This is awesome guys!
What regulators/selonoids are everyone running?
Looks like a lot of aquarium plants. This has a built in seloniod that shuts the regulator off when no power is provided? Would the same work for the tunze kit?
What regulators/selonoids are everyone running?
Looks like a lot of aquarium plants. This has a built in seloniod that shuts the regulator off when no power is provided? Would the same work for the tunze kit?
Just ordered my Apex and have a CaRx on the way. What kind of feed pump should I be looking at for this? It’s been 15 years since I had a CaRx and I think back then we just used maxi jet but I know people use dc and dosing pumps now too.
Shirak
Valuable Member
I prefer a peristaltic pump. I am using a Masteflex but some of the new pumps in the aquarium trade like kamoer continuous duty pump are being used effectively. With the peristaltic pump there is precise control over the amount of effluent and the line won't get clogged when using a slow drip and needle valve.
Since the beginning of April 2019 I've had my Trident and after a couple weeks when I trusted it, I started experimenting with some programming I thought of well before its release. More people with reactors need to know about this easy to create and use program to help with Alkalinity stability so I'm sharing it on R2R in hopes more reefers see it. A sticky thread would be best.
For 15 years prior to the Neptune Trident, my Alkalinity was always on a slow climb, or slow drop due to my laziness. I learned that as long as changes happened slowly my corals don't really care. Because of that, I never worried about dialing my reactor in perfectly and I would often go several months without testing for Alkalinity. I've had Alkalinity as low as 6 and as high as 16. Those two extremes are when my corals showed visible signs of stress and of course I had to jump to action to correct the problem. A 10% WC and slight correction of the reactor is all that was ever needed. The problem happened slowly so correcting it slowly is always best with SPS. Every number in between is pretty safe in my experience. Of course 7-11 is the target. I have not tested for Calcium in over a decade, and rarely test for Magnesium. In my opinion, with a Calcium reactor, those two numbers are not real important, because with a quality media, they will always be balanced.
Enough back story, on to the good stuff.
This program should work with any CO2 regulator with an electronic selenoid. Its very simple and consists of two virtual outlets. One is the high limit of your choice, and the second is the toggle that slows the melt (raises the pH in the reactor) to slowly lower the Alkalinity in the tank.
This is the high limit Virtual Outlet. I chose 9.03 as a random number for the initial experiment and never changed it. The Target Alkalinity is 9.00.
This is my OSC Virtual Outlet. For every twenty minute cycle, the CO2 is turned off which raises the reactor pH up about two tenths
For the reactor CO2, I left my old original programming as a fail safe and simply added the last line. At this point I could remove the second line, but leaving it will make things easier for when I have to take the Trident off line for maintenance.
Thats it! The program requires you to dial in the reactor to work slightly harder than you need it to and as demands increase the toggle will come on less often as a high limit. This has been successfully working for quite a few large SPS tanks including @melev and @Thales as well as my own. I hope it helps you too.
Hi, I just used your programing for my calcium reactor + Trident combo. I have a few quick questions though:
1. In regards to the RxTrThrottle program, what does "OSC 015:00/005:00/000:00 Then On" mean?
2. Once I set this program, what should I set my effluent drip rate to be? or does it not matter, and I can just let it stream out without adjusting the needle valve?
I really appreciate this tutorial by the way! I am having a lot of difficulty with my calcium reactor, and I was about to give up on it. I have been on either a steady incline or steady decline since I set this thing up. I'm hoping today will be the day this changes.
brahm
Active Member
This is neat, I went a different route thanks to a friend and modded what they did a little to try to tighten it up, I’m only testing 4 times a day so the snag I run into is the amount I add is based on the last test and what I’m finding is the demand is predictable based on my lighting schedule. I have one virtual switch to control the co2 doser and keep the ph in the reactor correct when it’s running. Then I have 6 virtual switches that turn on the c02 doser and the dosing pump for different amount of times. (kramoer which I can adjust the rate as demands go up).
each virtual switch has a mode for when lights are off and one for on as demand is different (actually they are offset as I find demand takes a bit to ramp up with the lights and ramp down when they go off). I have 3 throttles one for when the alk is around the range I want it (this is to maintain) then one for if it goes above I still add some here to slowly drop it, then one in the event my alk consumption drastically goes up to get me back in the level range.
im still adjusting, but it’s getting more stable. Also of course how much I muck with things can impact the consumption of that day.
each virtual switch has a mode for when lights are off and one for on as demand is different (actually they are offset as I find demand takes a bit to ramp up with the lights and ramp down when they go off). I have 3 throttles one for when the alk is around the range I want it (this is to maintain) then one for if it goes above I still add some here to slowly drop it, then one in the event my alk consumption drastically goes up to get me back in the level range.
im still adjusting, but it’s getting more stable. Also of course how much I muck with things can impact the consumption of that day.
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Shirak
Valuable Member
The OSC portion of the throttle program
Determines cycle between CO2 on and off. 015:00/005:00 Off for 15 minutes and on for 5 minutes
your effluent flow should remain steady
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