Calling all chemists - titration

[ZaneTer]

Good morning everyone

I am hoping for a detailed explanation about titration tests to determine PO4 levels. I am interested in knowing what chemicals are involved and the process by which the titration is carrried our.
For reference I built an alkalinity tester and controller after one I had bought let me down killing most of my corals. I am an automation engineer and already have most of the required dosing equipment, pumps and pH transmitters that are needed.
Information on nitrate and magnesium titration tests would also be helpful. When completed I will be releasing the plans I have for free to any advanced DIYers out there. PLC and PID knowledge will be required before they start.
Thanks
Zane

 

[JimWelsh]

I'm curious -- which one did you buy that failed you? How did it fail?

PO4 and nitrate tests are not typically titrations -- they are colorimetric, and sensitive to the amount of time since the reagents and sample have been mixed. The PO4 signal is typically very weak, and requires a longer path length than most other tests.

 

[ZaneTer]

I'm curious -- which one did you buy that failed you? How did it fail?

PO4 and nitrate tests are not typically titrations -- they are colorimetric, and sensitive to the amount of time since the reagents and sample have been mixed. The PO4 signal is typically very weak, and requires a longer path length than most other tests.

Good morning Jim
If you don’t mind I will send you a PM? I will happily explain exactly what happened.

 

[Dennis Cartier]

I am also curious about what happened regarding your tester/controller (as mine hums away doing a test). These devices are supposed to bring a new level of safety and reports to the contrary are concerning.

Dennis

 

[Breadman03]

I am also curious about what happened regarding your tester/controller (as mine hums away doing a test). These devices are supposed to bring a new level of safety and reports to the contrary are concerning.

Dennis

My opinion: Anything can fail. We have to check up on tech to make sure it is doing what it is supposed to periodically. While I'm super interested in these new alk (and some more) monitors, they are also new to the hobby. I wouldn't trust them to make major corrections, but just small ones so that deviations from normal wouldn't be problematic. If I had the cash to burn, I'd have an Alkatronic right now. It seems, however, that I needed to get brakes for two cars instead. Oh well, I suppose I'll stick with Salifert for now.

If you were manually testing your alk, and your dosing regimen kept you at 8.0 dkh, and your alk test showed 6.4, would you dose immediately, or would you look to verify your test results? Now what about if your test said 7.8? "Trust, but verify." A quote from President Reagan that is very useful in my daily life. Trust your controller, but verify that it's working properly. That's why my Apex doesn't do anything for my pH readings for now. I haven't calibrated my display probe in 2-3 years, and the new calcium reactor probe hasn't been calibrated yet. I see the pH swings, but have no reason to expect that the numbers are accurate.

 

[ZaneTer]

That is a great quote Breadman
My disappointment came from having 2 monitors fail. The first failed outright-relatively safe to be honest. The second decided to modify the dosing to such a degree that 600ml of triton 3a were dumped not to mention there wasn’t even a way to stop the doser from running because of such a buggy user interface. I lost most of my corals including one that Dana and I were doing an experiment on.

I do this for a living. I do control systems for pharmaceutical industry/ food and beverage/ automotive and some experimental areas such as I am currently working on. If I had delivered a product as they had then I would have been sued. No question about it.

I learnt my lesson and built one myself. It does exactly what I want, how I want and when I want.

It is t complete yet in that I still want to build a PO4 monitor, nitrate monitor and magnesium monitor. Once that is complete then I am pretty much done. I am going to give away everything I design. This might tick some people off but they have to realise that this requires a relatively advanced knowledge of modern automation and equipment that is more expensive that the current KH controllers on the market. The flip side being that it will work significantly better.........to a pharmaceutical standard.

 

[Alfrareef]

That is a great quote Breadman
My disappointment came from having 2 monitors fail. The first failed outright-relatively safe to be honest. The second decided to modify the dosing to such a degree that 600ml of triton 3a were dumped not to mention there wasn’t even a way to stop the doser from running because of such a buggy user interface. I lost most of my corals including one that Dana and I were doing an experiment on.

I do this for a living. I do control systems for pharmaceutical industry/ food and beverage/ automotive and some experimental areas such as I am currently working on. If I had delivered a product as they had then I would have been sued. No question about it.

I learnt my lesson and built one myself. It does exactly what I want, how I want and when I want.

It is t complete yet in that I still want to build a PO4 monitor, nitrate monitor and magnesium monitor. Once that is complete then I am pretty much done. I am going to give away everything I design. This might **** some people off but they have to realise that this requires a relatively advanced knowledge of modern automation and equipment that is more expensive that the current KH controllers on the market. The flip side being that it will work significantly better.........to a pharmaceutical standard.

Following.

 

[Bob2bob]

following

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I too don't understand the question as phosphate and nitrate are not usually measured by titration.

Magnesium is, if you want to develop an autotitrator for that.