Can a kalk stirrer (Avast K1) replace 2 part dosing in a smaller system ?

[hans4811]

Have a 2+ year old SPS heavy mixed reef in a Red Sea 250…55g display + 15g sump. Been mixing up Brightwells Alkalin8.3-P and Calcion-P, which is what’s suggested using the Reefers Moonshiners program to avoid any trace elements being inadvertently added. And honestly, the 2 part is becoming a pita is why I’m asking, nothing to do with increasing my PH, as that’s pretty good, 8.15-8.33 from my Apex.

Having to mix this once or twice a week or forgetting to refill my dosing container and then having the alk swing and bumping it back up, etc…gotta be a better mousetrap I thought. Never having used Kalk before is why I’m asking this for some pros and cons.

Currently I’m dosing 170ml of alk and 140ml of calc daily, with about a .3 daily swing in alk. I averaged out 4 days in May from my Apex logs on how often my ATO ran, which came out to be about 130 mins daily. With my Avast peristaltic ATO pump at 20ml/min = 2600ml of daily evaporation or 2.6 L or .68 gals.

Avast suggests adding 90% of aquariums daily evaporation total, which for me would be 2340ml and letting the ATO fill the rest. I would plan on using a spare DOS pump I have to dose the kalk, keeping it separate from ATO. Don’t really know how much kalk I would need to dose to start off, read where 500ml is a good start and go from there.

With these numbers above, could I just dose kalk via the Avast K1 kalk stirrer and still keep my alk around 8.0 - 8.5, which is where it is now and eliminate 2 part ?

Implementing a calcium reactor seems overkill for my small system, which from what I’ve read the break off point for one seems to be around the 200gal system, so don’t really want to get into that discussion.

Seems like most just use kalk to supplement their 2-part dosing, but then these are usually larger systems. Don’t really want to add yet another task, want to replace…if possible. Seems like adding a half cup of kalk every 2 weeks and cleaning equipment once a month, plus the added bonus of elevating PH and possible decreasing P04’s is a no brainer….what am I missing ?

Thanks, Ken

 

[CNDReef]

I run Rm and use only kalk. I run it off a versa and will keep running kalk until I max out evaporation. I would start at 1L a day and adjust from there. I’m dosing 1.3L in a 40B a day.

 

[hans4811]

just for an idea of what we’re talking about here…

 

[hans4811]

I run Rm and use only kalk. I run it off a versa and will keep running kalk until I max out evaporation. I would start at 1L a day and adjust from there. I’m dosing 1.3L in a 40B a day.

Good info…do you use a kalk stirrer or just a separate Brute tub mixed with Kalk ? what kind of reef …heavy sps or lps…what ?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The question is easily answered only by knowing how much alk you dose per day in dKH.

Is the 0.3 dKH mentioned the full daily dose?

 

[BanjoBandito]

I run an avast K1 paired with a coral box dosing pump (soon to be upgraded to a DOS). So far it's holding my ALK at 8.5-ish with 1000 ml dosed per day staggered. My PH holds around 8.2-.83. I'm also running a scrubber at night (lights off) so I can't tell you if that scrubbers CO2 uptake is helping PH at night intelligently. The Avast K1 is a nice stirrer, I stir for 15-20 min. every 2 hours. Main concerns is as uptake increases from some of the SPS in the tank, can KALK only handle it or will I have to secondary (or primary/switch) dose. I do plan on getting a clam at some point, which will also start the Ca/Alk drain. We'll see.

 

[hans4811]

The question is easily answered only by knowing how much alk you dose per day in dKH.

Is the 0.3 dKH mentioned the full daily dose?

Not sure how to answer that Randy…I dose 170ml of Brightwells’ Alkalin8.3-P. Not sure how to convert that to dkH. I’ve bumped that up over the past couple of weeks from 160 to 165 to 170, as my dkH has been dropping by about .3 each day and the current dose wasn’t keeping it at the 8.3 level. As an example, took readings on 5/8, 5/10 and 5/12 of 8.2, 7.9 and 7.7; respectively. At which point I bumped my dose to 170ml and added 4gr to 8 oz of rodi to bump it up to 8.0. I am constantly adding that ’bump’ of 4gr on a weekly basis…which is getting old and why I’m asking about Kalk…lol.

 

[hans4811]

I run an avast K1 paired with a coral box dosing pump (soon to be upgraded to a DOS). So far it's holding my ALK at 8.5-ish with 1000 ml dosed per day staggered. My PH holds around 8.2-.83. I'm also running a scrubber at night (lights off) so I can't tell you if that scrubbers CO2 uptake is helping PH at night intelligently. The Avast K1 is a nice stirrer, I stir for 15-20 min. every 2 hours. Main concerns is as uptake increases from some of the SPS in the tank, can KALK only handle it or will I have to secondary (or primary/switch) dose. I do plan on getting a clam at some point, which will also start the Ca/Alk drain. We'll see.

That’s good info Banjo…thanks.

How do you schedule your mixing and dosing of the Kalk ? Do you dose say an hour after your mixing is done, allowing it to settle ?

How big is your system and are you just using the Kalk calculator supplied by Avast based on evaporation rate ?

 

[hans4811]

I also saw from other posts I’ve been reading that people have been having issues with these stirrers in keeping a saturated solution as Randy chimed in and says…I don't have a great answer to you, except to note that lack of saturation control is one of the reasons I do not prefer dosing kalkwasser/limewater from a stirrer.

So should I just save my money and just dose from a still, premixed reservoir ?

 

[YOYOYOReefer]

been using one of these stirrers for many years over a decade at least by avast , plus one of my own creation that uses a bbq gill rotissery , never had an issure with potency. thats a myth. but if money was tight would spend it elsewhere and just use a container. kalk is pretty amazing on a lower to mid needs tank/

 

[BanjoBandito]

That’s good info Banjo…thanks.

How do you schedule your mixing and dosing of the Kalk ? Do you dose say an hour after your mixing is done, allowing it to settle ?

How big is your system and are you just using the Kalk calculator supplied by Avast based on evaporation rate ?

My system is a total of 106 gallons, its an 80 gallon cube w/ a 26 gallon sump. The little dosing pump I use doesn't allow for 'precise' time frames so I just setup it up for that amount during the day. The avast is a gravity fed unit with an elbow out so the kalk crust doesn't come out. It's not a magnetic spinner, so it's not creating CLOUDY, KALK STORMS, the mixing is pretty gentle. It doses into my sump. The amount was basically from tinkering around with the dosing and seeing where it would hold at what I wanted. I'm upgrading here to a DOS pump, so I may get more precise. I don't run a probe in my stirrer at the moment, so I just use the opening to throw a PH probe in every monday while I'm doing water changes and stuff.

 

[CNDReef]

Good info…do you use a kalk stirrer or just a separate Brute tub mixed with Kalk ? what kind of reef …heavy sps or lps…what ?

I use a stirrer becouse of space but would prefer a storage bin instead if I could.

 

[YOYOYOReefer]

set your kalk reactor effluent to be constant daily and less than your total evaporation loss.
example my tank evaporates at least 5 liters a day so my kalkwasser replacement is set at 4 liters per day and the ato handle the last liter

 

[dwest]

I don’t think you get there with kalk honestly. Kalk is great. I always start my tanks with and then use it throughout. But, eventually, all of my tanks need 2 part once the stony corals and coralline algae get growing strongly.

I have used both a brute mixing container and an avast stirrer at different times . I get to the same place eventually.

 

[YOYOYOReefer]

ya i use kalk and a calcium reactor, i dont use the 2 part

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Dose is not the problem. It’s always important to know the dose in dKH per day, and you are way, way above normal.

159 mL of Brightwell alk 8.3 liquid in 70 gallons boosts alk by a whopping 7 dKH. Way too much. 0.2 to 3 dkH per day is the normal range.

I think there must be substantial calcium carbonate precipitation going in.

 

[hans4811]

Dose is not the problem. It’s always important to know the dose in dKH per day, and you are way, way above normal.

159 mL of Brightwell alk 8.3 liquid in 70 gallons boosts alk by a whopping 7 dKH. Way too much. 0.2 to 3 dkH per day is the normal range.

I think there must be substantial calcium carbonate precipitation going in.

I don’t use the liquid, I use the powder, alkalin8.2-P. I’ve been mixing 40 grams in a liter of RODI, which may be too little and why im dosing so much of it…170ml. I should probably try and increase the powder to 50 gr.

But yes, normally I’m adding about .3 dkH daily to keep it around 8.3 dkH.

 

[hans4811]

The more I read the more I’m leaning to just using a Brute container and a DOS pump. If I use this method, will the line become clogged over time with the Kalk ? I ask this as I may have to store the Brute container in the garage and run a line to the sump, which could be maybe 20’ or so…just a guess.

Also living in Florida, my garage can get extremely hot in the summer. Will this be an issue with the Kalk solution being out there ? Does it degrade the saturation of it or anything else ?

Thanks for the help all…

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I don’t use the liquid, I use the powder, alkalin8.2-P. I’ve been mixing 40 grams in a liter of RODI, which may be too little and why im dosing so much of it…170ml. I should probably try and increase the powder to 50 gr.

But yes, normally I’m adding about .3 dkH daily to keep it around 8.3 dkH.

That is exactly why telling people your alk dosing in dKH is useful. The mL per day was uninterpretable if you make your own solution and do not tell us what it is.

You are dosing about 6.8 grams of the Brightwell product to 70 gallons. That equates to 0.67 dKH per day.

If you are looking to switch to limewater (kalwkasser), you will need to add 1.55 liters (0.41 gallons) of saturated limewater. IF the reactor can only deliver half saturated limewater, then the need doubles to 3 L (0.8 gallons) per day.

Demand may rise slightly since the pH will rise, so you might need a bit more than this to maintain the same alk.

You indicate that you have 2.6 L per day of evaporation, suggesting the this method will probably meet the demand for you, as along as the reactor can deliver above 60% saturation.

 

[hans4811]

That is exactly why telling people your alk dosing in dKH is useful. The mL per day was uninterpretable if you make your own solution and do not tell us what it is.

You are dosing about 6.8 grams of the Brightwell product to 70 gallons. That equates to 0.67 dKH per day.

If you are looking to switch to limewater (kalwkasser), you will need to add 1.55 liters (0.41 gallons) of saturated limewater. IF the reactor can only deliver half saturated limewater, then the need doubles to 3 L (0.8 gallons) per day.

Demand may rise slightly since the pH will rise, so you might need a bit more than this to maintain the same alk.

You indicate that you have 2.6 L per day of evaporation, suggesting the this method will probably meet the demand for you, as along as the reactor can deliver above 60% saturation.

Perfect, thank you so much Randy !

Just to eliminate that saturation variable, it seems the best way to do this is just use the Brute container method vs a stirrer or reactor, so I’m always using a fully saturated dosage.

Just seems like less hassle doing it this way as well. A 20 gal Brute container would last me dang near a month and a half !! Whole lot better than what I’m doing now mixing up these Brightwell products….